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Barbell Zercher Squat on same day as Deadlift?

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KIWI5

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I am shifting from low bar back squat to the diabolical zercher squat due to wrist discomfort. I am planning on practicing the zercher squat before deadlifting- at this stage my Zercher Squat weight is far lower than my low bar squat weights so should be a good movement pre deadlift? By this I mean that the Zercher Squat appears to target the upper back similar to the deadlift.
 
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I am shifting from low bar back squat to the diabolical zercher squat due to wrist discomfort. I am planning on practicing the zercher squat before deadlifting- at this stage my Zercher Squat weight is far lower than my low bar squat weights so should be a good movement pre deadlift? By this I mean that the Zercher Squat appears to target the upper back similar to the deadlift.
I’d pick a priority, do that first, and treat the other as assistance.

-S-
 
Bill- thanks, I will send you a PM with a video- I don't want to risk posting a video of me doing squats on the public area..mass hilarity might ensue. Or the RUSSIANS might get ahold of it.

Steve- understood. I will alternate between heavy zercher and light dead one week and vice versa the next. Thanks Steve!
 
Steve- understood. I will alternate between heavy zercher and light dead one week and vice versa the next. Thanks Steve!

I wouldn’t switch week to week. Spent some time with it. Try at least four weeks, probably eight. Then switch order of exercise and test which builds the qualities you want better.
 
Geoff, interesting...I am so interested in becoming proficient in the Zercher Squat that this would/could be my main lift, following up with 1x5 deadlift with no higher than 85% of my 1RM (for ex) I doubt I would become any weaker....I do note however that Wendler has a two day a week lifting program with the squat/deadlift alternated weekly. One thing is clear, come this weekend I need to make up my mind and start a new program. And the word '"Zercher" will feature prominently in the instructions.
 
I like the idea of using one as assistance for other. I am assuming that your wrist injury is not affecting your grip for the deadlift? If so, it may be helpful to stick to zercher only. You will likely see good benefit to the DL just by working on the zercher. Otherwise, follow the advice above
 
I just did a month alternating zerchers on Mondays and deadlift on Thursday and liked it very much.
 
No real injury to my wrists, just discomfort from my hyper-extended wrists during low bar squatting. Clearly my grip needs work! I only have one day to dedicate to lower body barbell training so must do zercher/deadlift on same day or just choose one movement. I have 2 days of T Handle swings, TGUs and loaded carries later in the week so dropping the deadlift won't matter too much, at least for a 6-8 week cycle. Bring on the Zercher! My initial testing of the Zercher squat quickly made me realize that breath control and pain tolerance are going to be especially important for this movement....
 
No real injury to my wrists, just discomfort from my hyper-extended wrists during low bar squatting. Clearly my grip needs work!

Mmm... IMHO, from the problem you describe (hyper-extended wrist), it is not your grip that need work but either your setup technique or mobility. Have you worked with a lifting teacher/coach, SFL or other?
 
No coaching ( Clearly!) But I have watched the videos from the soft spoken Mark Rippetoe. Ive got decent shoulder mobility and arm bars are a daily drill- I think that by going to a thumbless grip and wider hand placement will help. I only feel discomfort when I start putting heavy loads on the bar. So maybe I am gripping the bar to tight? I do know that during my last cycle I was trying to bring my hands close in to create tension.
 
The bar is rolling down your back into your hands. You don’t have the bar your proper position, you are not making a sufficient rack position, you don’t have sufficient musculature to support the bar, you are losing tension or not creating enough tension.

People who experience Wrist, elbow, and/or shoulder pain most likely the bar in drifting on you. It may be mobility but the symptom is the same. If you don’t have the flexibility to make a back to hold the bar in position it will roll down on you.

Try some Rear delt and upperback work to inflate those muscles and see if that helps you create a better rack position.
 
More solid advice, sounds like my move to the Zercher Squat is timely as this will help my upper back, combining this with my new found love of double KB hi pulls I reckon I am on the right path. Plus, I am halfway through Dan John's "Never let Go" so the path to excellence continues.
 
Tried a much wider thumbless grip on the low bar squat with great results. I do need to do a bit more warm up shoulder mobility as my shoulders felt stiff afterwards. Back to the Zercher- I feel this most in my erector spinae- so forget about any deadlifting before or after, I've got a lot of work to progress on this lift. I will stick with my weekly low bar squat as a prime lift and go with a 'daily dose' Zercher squat to get this lift patterned. Now I just need to tidy up my horrendous double kettlebell clean & jerk......
 
Love the Zercher squat (that's why it's my avatar). However, to answer your queston, I have a few. What is your current routine like and geared towards? Powerlifting, muscle gain, conditioning for sport? I used zerchers extensively when training at home (they don't require a rack) and found them to be a very solid assistance exercise for my regular squat, which went up the first time I tried it after a long layoff with no direct training. But my style is more wide stance, hip dominant, sitting back like, in both the zercher and back squat. You have to decide what capacity you're going to train the zercher. As a main lift? Accessory lift? There are other variables to consider as well as your stance in the zercher vs that of your deadlift style. If you pull sumo and zercher with a wide stance, your hips may be smoked before you even touch deadlifts. Likewise, if you kept the stances dissimilar enough i.e. narrow + deep in zerchers and sumo for the deads, or wide in the zerchers and conventional in the deadlifts, there will be enough "same but different" to not overtrain the same movement patterns. If you train lower body 2x a week, both of these lifts will make effective main lifts if you choose to use a similar stance in both, thus doubling your groove. Zercher power to you!
 
Great observations/comments Philippe- my training goals focus on two areas: fighting osteoporosis & sarcopenia as well as personal challenge. To acheive these I focus two days on strength: Saturday: Incline Bench & Chins --Sunday: Zercher Squat & Loaded Carries-- Monday: OS Resets & 30+ minutes level 1 cardio (walking, elliptical, etc)-- Tuesday & Wednesday: Power & Muscular Endurance training using T Handle Swings, Double KB High Pulls. Additional KB clean/press/squat and TGUs thrown in as well. I havent fully decided how to program these two days yet. But seeing as today is Tuesday....I better get focused soon! Thursday: Moderate weight Rack Deadlifts and loaded carries. HUGE focus on grip training on this day, plus the fun of varied loaded carries. -- Friday: OS Resets, 30+ minutes level 1 cardio and wrap up with myofascial massage. Strength training follows Wendler 5/3/1 and I will wave my loads on Tues/Weds/Thursday based off Jim Maddens recommendations from 'Ageless Athlete'. 3 weeks on 1 week Wendler deload and repeat again with a 1-2kg increase in strength lifts. By summer I plan to be ready to tackle Hector Gutierrez's 701A KB complex....
 
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Ah what a schedule! You must be very busy indeed! But yes, I see what I, in my limited wisdom, believe to be great plan for success! One note about Zerchers, they will scorch your midsection! So it will receive a great deal of work on Sunday. Nothing wrong with that! I wish you the best in reaching your goals and keep us posted on progress!
 
I want (and need to keep) my training sessions around the 60 minute mark, 90 if I've got the time. Tuesday and Wednesdays are supposed to be assistance/light days with a big focus on fun. I ran late getting home today (I have a home gym ) so I just went with an improvised session. 16kg TGU x 4, 2 laps farmers carry around the house (24kg Kb & 25kg DB), 2 laps around the house rack carry alternating arms with 24kg Kb, then 20 minutes double Kb clean/press/squat alternating with double Kb high pulls. I really love the double Kb high pull- that double elbow strike at the top is awesome. Now I must eat. ......
 
Yes, The kettlebell high pull has been a pretty mainstay with me as well, mainly for upper back health purposes. I suffered a major pec/shoulder injury years ago and as a "humpback" deadlifter, I find they are an excellent way to strengthen the muscles around the scap and shoulders to undo all the abuse my poor shoulders have endeared. The sessions you've mentioned are indeed important. Fun keeps you going and I can see these sessions being a good catalyst for recovery! Christian Thib of T-nation wrote of something similar, calling them Neural training sessions. Light, fun and tonic inducing!
 
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