Barbell Zercher squat strength standards

[DavThew]

I have spent the last 3 weeks on the Occam's Razor plan from Pavel No Distractions: The Occam's Razor Training Plan | StrongFirst

It's been thoroughly enjoyable and my first real foray into the world of Zercher squats. I have neglected heavy squats over the past few years (KB DFSQ are quite limited in the load you can actually use) and am really enjoying the strength that they are building.

Where do you think the Zercher squat sits when it comes to a "good standard"? I am currently squatting 100kg for a triple, and have a little more in the bag, but I also am right at the start of this journey.

On a different but related note - I know some people love/hate high rep back squats, would higher reps be reasonable for Zerchers once I have completed my current program? Full disclosure: I train at home with no squat rack so sumo deadlift the bar to my knees and then get under the bar with my elbows for the squats.

 

[jca17]

When I was training Zercher squats the first quarter of this year, started with 5 sets of 8 and let the reps come down naturally as I added 10 pounds to the bar each week. I started at 115 pounds, weighed 152. Week 11 I hit 205 (93 kg) lbs for 4 sets of 4, which was about 1.28x body weight (165 lb/75 kg) at that time. That was probably my 5 rep max. In light of the progress that can be made in 3 months, I think we can place the lift standards up higher than front squat standards, maybe a little below low bar back squat standards.
I think hitting a triple at like 1.4x bw would be along the lines of Dan John's standards which someone else listed in this thread.
Hitting a triple at like 1.7-1.8x bw would be along the lines of a strong range of lifts (for a non-strength sport athlete) like 2.5xbw DL, 2xbw squat, 1.5xbw bench press.

In Deadlift Dynamite, Pavel says there is no point in testing 1RM for a non-competition lift, but that book is geared for powerlifters. Still, it seems like a safe bet to keep track by testing your max triple and five as he suggests in the book.

One Zercher complication for standards is that there are many grooves/paths one can take with this lift. If you keep the arm tight against the body like a double kettlbell rack, you can go almost purely vertical, and very deep, like a front squat. Or if you sit your hips way back and lean forward like a low bar backsquat, you get all that hip and back strength involved. You are limited in ROM by the bar hitting closer to your knees, but you can move a lot of weight. I try to only sit back as far as allows me to just break parallel from the top of knee to hip crease, or the top of knee to hip joint.

In the "best squat" article:
The Best Squat Exercise | StrongFirst

He says in the comments not to do too high of reps because your inner elbow/forearm will take a beating. I used Fat Gripz on the bar where my elbows went to distribute the load, and 5 set of 8 was tolerable (although I was using pretty low weight at the time).

Interestingly, he also says in the comments that if you want to do a high rep squat program, stick with high bar back squat since low bar backsquat can be so hard on shoulders. Low bar and zercher excel in the 3-8 rep range it seems: biased towards pure strength.

 

[DavThew]

@jca17 - thank you for that incredibly comprehensive reply!

 

[Steve Freides]

@DavThew, that's the real Zercher - DL to your thighs then hook the bar with your elbows and stand up.

-S-

 

[DavThew]

@DavThew, that's the real Zercher - DL to your thighs then hook the bar with your elbows and stand up.

-S-

Good to know! I really enjoy this lift. I think I'll get everything out of it I can and then see what my DL looks like. As someone who trained with KBs and bodyweight for the last few years I never understood how the powerlifting and strongman guys could train a lift once or twice a week and improve. The Zercher is teaching me how.

 

[Abdul-Rasheed]

One Zercher complication for standards is that there are many grooves/paths one can take with this lift. If you keep the arm tight against the body like a double kettlbell rack, you can go almost purely vertical, and very deep, like a front squat. Or if you sit your hips way back and lean forward like a low bar backsquat, you get all that hip and back strength involved. You are limited in ROM by the bar hitting closer to your knees, but you can move a lot of weight

Well said. This has been my experience too.

 

[Harald Motz]

The Zercher Lift is really great. Just one rep with a deadlift from the floor is a "Long Cycle" in my opinion. when I did them I used sweat bands pulled up to my elbow, later without and I've built some callous in the crook of the elbow. I liked to go heavy with them from time to time and worked up to 180kg @ 85kg bw. I trained it for some months quite frequently Easy Strength style in conjunction with handstandpushups as my strength training.