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Other/Mixed Zone 2 cardio question

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
Agree. Most people can get good zone 2 by following MAF guidance, conversational pace, etc...

And I'm not sure I know what Inigo San Millan suggests rather than AeT, AnT. His knowledge is so vast, it's difficult to summarize!

For general health-related fitness guidance, Dr. Andy Galpin has recently been on both Peter Attia's podcast and a 6-part on Huberman Lab. I'm in the process of consuming all that...

I want something like the Food Pyramid for cardio
 

Bauer

Level 7 Valued Member
I dunno if that works in pyramid form.

a -- Zone 5 --
b ----- Zone 4 -----
c -- Zone 3 --
d --------------- Zone 2 ---------------

well formatting this isn't working....
You can format it as code and than adjust the monotype font.
Code:
a              -- Zone 5 --
b           ----- Zone 4 -----
c              -- Zone 3 --
d --------------- Zone 2 ---------------
 

Bauer

Level 7 Valued Member
I want something like the Food Pyramid for cardio
Conceptually, this article is quite interesting, outlining the relationship between volume at different intensities (polarized model).

 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
Conceptually, this article is quite interesting, outlining the relationship between volume at different intensities (polarized model).


No way the People of Wal Mart are going to grok that. ;)
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
Conceptually, this article is quite interesting, outlining the relationship between volume at different intensities (polarized model).


I like this concept, and the article. It all makes sense to me, I agree, and I get what they are saying. But there is one sentence I don't quite understand: "To bolster endurance, an athlete must force fast twitch fibers to work longer than they want to. Once these fibers are recruited with a high load, the athlete extends the duration of work to force the fibers to work aerobically." Can anyone explain this in another way?
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
I like this concept, and the article. It all makes sense to me, I agree, and I get what they are saying. But there is one sentence I don't quite understand: "To bolster endurance, an athlete must force fast twitch fibers to work longer than they want to. Once these fibers are recruited with a high load, the athlete extends the duration of work to force the fibers to work aerobically." Can anyone explain this in another way?

Morphing your IIx fibers into IIa fibers?
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
Morphing your IIx fibers into IIa fibers?

That's kind of what I was guessing. But is that how it works?

Being a cyclist and weightlifter, I'm often wondering... Can I build more of both? Can I build the strength of both? Or to some extent, is it an either/or proposition?

I imagine you have similar thoughts relative to being a rower and weightlifter...
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
That's kind of what I was guessing. But is that how it works?

Being a cyclist and weightlifter, I'm often wondering... Can I build more of both? Can I build the strength of both? Or to some extent, is it an either/or proposition?

I imagine you have similar thoughts relative to being a rower and weightlifter...

My understanding is that the transition isn't permanent.

The way I handle it is that when I row during weightlifting season, I do a lot of interval work (below the glycolytic level), which is type IIx (like weightlifting), and lots of LISS (type I). This keeps my aerobic base decent and my "burst ability" intact.

But my 2K times drop way off because I can't extend the opening and finishing sprints into the 90+ second range without hitting the glyco wall and forcing adaptation (type IIx flipping to type IIa) that I don't want.

Then when weightlifting season is over, I go through a "Hell Week" (old football term) for 2 weeks to start pushing the envelope on sprint duration.

If I've kept my aerobic base intact, by about week 4 my conditioning is where it needs to be and 2K times are getting closer to race times.

Rowing is probably a bit easier to mix with weightlifting than cycling because the races are very intense, but much shorter duration than cycling.
 
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watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
Here is a little more:

If an athlete wants to move from Type IIa to Type IIb (therefore becoming more powerful e.g. powerlifting), they would need to focus on heavy loads, low reps with high sets. Similarly, if an athlete wants to move from Type IIb to Type IIa (becoming faster for short periods of time e.g., basketball or rugby), they would need to focus on lighter loads (60% max RM – strength-speed), higher reps and fewer sets.

 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
1674507227548.png

1674507266131.png

Using a couple of handy reference from my Google search....

The bottom one explains the fiber types. So you're saying convert IIx to IIa, which is probably what that original quote is saying.

But I'm wondering if, as the top graphic suggests, one converts type II (FG) to type I (SO) by doing endurance training, and if that might be what they are suggesting.
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
View attachment 20353

View attachment 20354

Using a couple of handy reference from my Google search....

The bottom one explains the fiber types. So you're saying convert IIx to IIa, which is probably what that original quote is saying.

But I'm wondering if, as the top graphic suggests, one converts type II (FG) to type I (SO) by doing endurance training, and if that might be what they are suggesting.

This is how rowing peeps view it:


500M Sprints: IIb/x

5K Middle distance: IIa

Marathon: I

So I standard 2K races straddles between IIb/x and IIa.
 

Ege

Level 6 Valued Member
Are you actually hitting 70-80% MHR while walking?

I can't.

I love walking for all sorts of reasons, but I don't count it as Zone 2 cardio because my HR doesn't get into the target threshold for long enough (or barely at all).

So while I walk every day for about 20-30 minutes, I supplement that with 3 x 20-30 min of "vigorous" work each week (2 x Zone 2 sessions, 1 x Zone 5 interval session).
View attachment 20353

View attachment 20354

Using a couple of handy reference from my Google search....

The bottom one explains the fiber types. So you're saying convert IIx to IIa, which is probably what that original quote is saying.

But I'm wondering if, as the top graphic suggests, one converts type II (FG) to type I (SO) by doing endurance training, and if that might be what they are suggesting.
Are they sprinters because they were born with more fast twitch fibers? Or they have more fast twitch fibers because they are sprinting? Maybe a combination of two ? Not easy to prove if a long term study is not conducted.
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
Are they sprinters because they were born with more fast twitch fibers? Or they have more fast twitch fibers because they are sprinting? Maybe a combination of two ? Not easy to prove if a long term study is not conducted.
From the article above:
1674507921330.png
 
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