all posts post new thread

Bodyweight Protocol for Mass Building

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
malleus said:
I do not understand! Why anyone would like to build mass? Strength, strength endurance, all good, perfect! But mass? Why? So you can look "better"? A man does not care how he looks! Sissy does!;)
Click to expand...
If you are a climber, you need strength and no mass. If you play rugby, you need both. Different activities, different goals... :)
 
malleus said:
I do not understand! Why anyone would like to build mass? Strength, strength endurance, all good, perfect! But mass? Why? So you can look "better"? A man does not care how he looks! Sissy does!;)
Click to expand...

When it comes the reasons for mass building, mass is typically useful. There are, like mentioned, certain sports where it can be a hindrance. Otherwise it typically is almost always beneficial. There are limits to this end too, of course, but it is rather rare.

Muscle mass is seen as beneficial to one's health. This is exaggerated in older populations. There's a caveat with it, as the muscle mass is much more easily gained when younger. So you can't live it to a ripe old age to start hypertrophy training to get all the benefits. Lots of athletes have also successfully alternated sports-specific training and even pure bodybuilding. Tommy Kono is a good example of this. This kind of training is also often recommended by very esteemed strength coaches who have a lot of both coaching and life experience. In Easy Strength by Dan John and Pavel Tsatsouline, for example.

Also, I think it's kind of silly to concentrate only on the muscularity of a man when it comes to vanity about looks. Most people prefer to dress up or trim themselves or shower or give a little nickel about how they look. Muscle is just a part of the puzzle.

When it comes to the original question of a protocol for mass building, I would recommend to take in some exercises for the legs as well. I can understand the reasoning for skinny legs, even if I don't agree. However, both personal and universal experience tells that lower body work typically gives great hypertrophy in the upper body as well. So not doing the lower body work might compromise your upper body training.
 
malleus said:
I do not understand! Why anyone would like to build mass? Strength, strength endurance, all good, perfect! But mass? Why? So you can look "better"? A man does not care how he looks! Sissy does!;)
Click to expand...
The "hypertrophy or not" question needn't be discussed here. It's been discussed at length in many places, and hypertrophy as a training goal is a valid choice. Let's stick to the topic at hand.

-S-
 
Hello,

+1 @Antti
Leg training with big moves, such as pistols / deadlift is pretty efficient to create growth hormone and muscle mass. Then, adding some sets (4 - 5) of 6 - 8 reps of tempo pistols (for intance, 4111) wil ensure you a good muscle growth. Indeed, pistols require a good core tension. I'd add it at the end of my session.

Otherwise, what about "ultra high" volume, with low rest and easy variations such as "jail-style" training (X push ups and squats throughout the day) for instance ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Steve Freides said:
The "hypertrophy or not" question needn't be discussed here. It's been discussed at length in many places, and hypertrophy as a training goal is a valid choice. Let's stick to the topic at hand.

-S-
Click to expand...
I think it is a valid question. But... never mind...
 
@malleus, @Steve Freides here is voicing an issue that seems to come up in nearly every forum. Where instead of actually answering the OP's questions, some decide to question and criticize the fact they asked a question. This tends to make people stop posting questions when abuse is all they end up getting. I started frequenting this forum because I get direct answers to my questions without the added BS.
 
@Nathan, asking question is good, and questioning the questions, as @malleus did, can also be good. I ask, as a moderator, that these topics - how to build mass, and whether or not one ought to try to build mass - be discussed separately, and that in this thread, we stick to trying to answer the question that was asked.

Someone could start another thread, perhaps in Training -> Other rather than here in the Bodyweight section, about why some people choose to pursue mass gains as a training goal. I'm all for that, and those who've seen my picture know that I am certainly among those who don't value gaining mass for its own sake, but it's a complex issue, and I do believe that, even for skinny folk like me, there is a time and a place for mass-building - it really does warrant its own thread, and the issue really isn't specific to bodyweight or any one particular training modality.

I will go start that other thread right now.

-S-
 
@Antti : For reasons that would take long to share and thought about for long, I've decided not to hypertrophy train my legs. I do strength train them with some heavy a#@ Pistols (even reaching the Beast), and that's good enough for me at this point in my life.

@pet' : Thanks for the links man!
 
Hear me now and believe me later - but don't think about it ever!

Hans-Franz-From-Saturday-Night-Live.jpg


Back to the question at hand. I agree with Antti that serious legwork is a powerful stimulant for upper/whole body hypertrophy.

The toughest part of this thread is 305pelusa is one of the more accomplished bodyweight gurus on the the forum - normally I'd direct his question, well, back to him. This is gonna take some out of the box thinking to make it come together. I have never seen an existing bodyweight protocol work in the way that progressive weight training can.

From a dead stop I would first jack my calories by 800-1000/day. Not only will I put on weight but I'm going to immediately see an increase in endurance and maybe a little top end strength.

The biggest challenge isn't getting to technical failure, it is managing the rep range to hit tech failure in 8-10 reps or so and still be progressive using only bodyweight. Really need to start with rep/max for each target lift and go from there.

The wall headstand PUs are another issue as they do not use a full ROM. Doing them on blocks might be a help as they will really benefit from the added drop at the start of the move.

One can also emphasize the eccentric portion, finish with a slight "bounce" at the bottom and explode through the concentric. This normally knocks about 20-25% off my rep/max.

Progressive reduction in rest periods is the easiest way to manipulate the work, but the first set should be one you can get for a dozen or so. Tweaks would have to be made to keep it there.

Iso pre-loading might be another option, done with every set. Alter the dwell time and hold position. Problem with this is a static hold is not the same as an Iso hold, once again having problems managing the rep range.
 
@North Coast Miller : All your suggestions are very good. Calories are in check, and I will be keeping full ROM in mind going forward.

I think it's possible to add muscle even with rep ranges higher than 10 though. So there's some leeway.

I guess the point of the thread was to come up with new, fun protocols. Using random number generation, dice, deck of cards, EMOM, etc. I know what to do to put on muscle and have been doing it successfully for months now.

But I know posters here are generally creative and I wanted to give an opportunity for a fun thread like that. Mainly because I haven't come up with anything more exciting that basic straight sets... and wanted to see if anybody else could.
 
malleus said:
Why? So you can look "better"? A man does not care how he looks! Sissy does!;)
Click to expand...
I think these comments are offensive and I agree with 305pelusa in that I don't think it should be ok for this forum (or really any forum).

@Steve Freides : It doesn't seem a bad thing to ask unrelated questions in a thread (called "hijacking"). But it's not OK when they are critical, the way @Nathan very well said. I think it's good to make the distinction. To me personally, I don't like these comments. The comments are not questions; they are rhetorical questions meant to deliver a point. Not actual questions.

You have edited my posts in the past because I did not follow link rules. Why is this kind of post OK, it doesn't feel respectful like a "gentleman" :/
 
@IcyROM, I have not said it's bad to ask unrelated questions; I have made a decision that this particular question the value of training for hypertrophy, that fact that it is related to the topic of the thread not withstanding, will be discussed in its own thread and not this one.

I cannot begin to take the time to explain all the decisions I make as moderator. Thank you all for your understanding, and if anyone still wishes to discuss something with me privately, you may PM me.

-S-
 
Cluster sets might be a good option (that you've probably tried) along with the ladders for building volume minus quick fatigue. I've been playing with these for boosting rep goals on some bw moves but notice a nice pump (not what I'm chasing but a nice side effect).

I also enjoy reverse pyramids occasionally for bodyweight moves. You could try this for the harder move for a few sets (e.g. 7,5,3 reps) and finish with a back off set or two of a regression that hits the same movement pattern but pushes reps up.

All that said, you are much more advanced than me so maybe just keep on doing what you're doing that's proved to work for you. ;)



305pelusa said:
@North Coast Miller : All your suggestions are very good. Calories are in check, and I will be keeping full ROM in mind going forward.

I think it's possible to add muscle even with rep ranges higher than 10 though. So there's some leeway.

I guess the point of the thread was to come up with new, fun protocols. Using random number generation, dice, deck of cards, EMOM, etc. I know what to do to put on muscle and have been doing it successfully for months now.

But I know posters here are generally creative and I wanted to give an opportunity for a fun thread like that. Mainly because I haven't come up with anything more exciting that basic straight sets... and wanted to see if anybody else could.
Click to expand...
 
You do a great job as moderator @Steve Freides! ;)

Steve Freides said:
@IcyROM, I have not said it's bad to ask unrelated questions; I have made a decision that this particular question the value of training for hypertrophy, that fact that it is related to the topic of the thread not withstanding, will be discussed in its own thread and not this one.

I cannot begin to take the time to explain all the decisions I make as moderator. Thank you all for your understanding, and if anyone still wishes to discuss something with me privately, you may PM me.

-S-
Click to expand...
You
 
305pelusa said:
@North Coast Miller : All your suggestions are very good. Calories are in check, and I will be keeping full ROM in mind going forward.

I think it's possible to add muscle even with rep ranges higher than 10 though. So there's some leeway.

I guess the point of the thread was to come up with new, fun protocols. Using random number generation, dice, deck of cards, EMOM, etc. I know what to do to put on muscle and have been doing it successfully for months now.

But I know posters here are generally creative and I wanted to give an opportunity for a fun thread like that. Mainly because I haven't come up with anything more exciting that basic straight sets... and wanted to see if anybody else could.
Click to expand...

I agree, you can go above 10 reps. In my experience if you go much above 15 things take a turn to a different sort of outcome. 20 is the absolute ceiling IMHO.

I did recall another strategy I have used for bodyweight and high rep movements, and gave a quick try after I got home - it still hurts!

Take a movement and break the ROM into three or four stop points. First "rep" only use 1/3 - 1/4 of the ROM and return to start, then drop to 2/3, 1/2 and return, etc, drop to the bottom of the move and return - one rep. You can do these starting at the bottom or top but seems to work better if you just start from the lock-out.
 
If you are a fan of Original Strength, I have a hypertrophy/strength routine that Tim Anderson designed for me a few years back. It was based on his own training, which at the time he attributed to gaining ~15 pounds.
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom