Kettlebell "Giant 1.0"
- Thread starter John Grahill
- Start date
Chris Mills
Level 6 Valued Member
I was at exactly same place this time last week and decided to go with 1.1 because the "light" day of 2.0 was going to be a metcon sprint for each of the 4-weeks. After fighting through 8s yesterday......., I'm happy to have gone that route, if only because I obviously have so much room for improvement (I only got 4 full sets).
The last couple of cleans of each set were.......ahem..... an issue. The first 4 are easy, the next 2 get your attention, and then...... every ounce of "energy" in my body was just...... gone. There's just no place in a set to......"rest". The lock-out and the rack are the only places you can "stop", and neither of those are.....restful.
They're even harder than a bunch of barbell clean and presses, because at least with those, the rack position can be a bit of a rest if you need it. Not with these. Once you start, you're committed. It's like swimming across a lake (though failure isn't quite so expensive as that!)!
Every new step I take with this makes me further appreciate how well thought out this program (which seems SO SIMPLE) really is. Maybe a bit overwrought, but it reminds me of Salieri describing Mozart in Amadeus......
Displace one note, and there would be diminishment. Displace one phrase, and the structure would fall.
jhpowers
Level 6 Valued Member
@Geoff Neupert Just a thought and some unasked for advice.
The thought...I've really noticed more in the way of rapid body composition changes with Giant than the other programs that I've done (and at 52 the hypertrophy was unexpected). After just 1.5 months I feel/look like I did after completing the slow course of Strong over much more time.
The unasked for advice...Why not write a sequel to Strong on density programs? You could write some chapters on density programming the why's, the effects, and how to strategize with auto regulation (deloads, etc) then just bundle your most popular density programs: DFW, RMF, Giant 1-3.
I just think that it would be nice to pull together the threads of some of your best programs in a single title with the kind of big picture guidance that Strong offered (but this time around programing).
The thought...I've really noticed more in the way of rapid body composition changes with Giant than the other programs that I've done (and at 52 the hypertrophy was unexpected). After just 1.5 months I feel/look like I did after completing the slow course of Strong over much more time.
The unasked for advice...Why not write a sequel to Strong on density programs? You could write some chapters on density programming the why's, the effects, and how to strategize with auto regulation (deloads, etc) then just bundle your most popular density programs: DFW, RMF, Giant 1-3.
I just think that it would be nice to pull together the threads of some of your best programs in a single title with the kind of big picture guidance that Strong offered (but this time around programing).
John Grahill
Level 8 Valued Member
I think Strong and the Giant can be combined nicely.
I still think Strong! is a great program and would use it for using a 4RM where I wouldn't feel comfortable going for another rep if you know what I mean. The 8 weeks of pure strength work would be needed at that point. I would then consider skipping phase 2 of Strong and go to Giant 3.0 for 4 weeks and then either Strong Phase 2 or the Giant 1 and 2 series.
Just a thought.
I still think Strong! is a great program and would use it for using a 4RM where I wouldn't feel comfortable going for another rep if you know what I mean. The 8 weeks of pure strength work would be needed at that point. I would then consider skipping phase 2 of Strong and go to Giant 3.0 for 4 weeks and then either Strong Phase 2 or the Giant 1 and 2 series.
Just a thought.
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An excellent insight as the density in 3.0 will definitely be a challenge..
If I may add to this..
If you wanna continue you can then shift to either slow and steady or short course..
How would you know what path to take?
If you get anywhere from 6-7 reps after 3.0 go slow and steady
If you get anywhere from 8-10 do short course
John Grahill
Level 8 Valued Member
Mark, excellent point (s)! I agree totally.
jhpowers
Level 6 Valued Member
@John Grahill and @Mark Limbaga these are great insights. I think that the various Giant and Strong programs can be assembled like lego blocks for various goals: strength, fat loss, etc and various stages of training. I'm really interested to see how people's experience develops putting the pieces of these two programs together in various ways.
Talk about WTH effects. I'm kind of amazed about the whole body impact (strength, hypertrophy and fat loss) of doing just the double C & P.
P.S. would be entering my deload week of 1.1 this week but I just got the second dose of the vaccine yesterday. I feel like I got beat with a baseball bat all over my body. I guess I'll either take a couple of days off or start my deload early.
Talk about WTH effects. I'm kind of amazed about the whole body impact (strength, hypertrophy and fat loss) of doing just the double C & P.
P.S. would be entering my deload week of 1.1 this week but I just got the second dose of the vaccine yesterday. I feel like I got beat with a baseball bat all over my body. I guess I'll either take a couple of days off or start my deload early.
guardian7
Level 6 Valued Member
Great idea. I am sold on density programs. At 51, not in the fitness industry and a dad with a professional job where workload varies dramatically and general physical training and health aging goals. It is perfect. done in 30 min. I am seeing body composition results at my age without dieting effort. I fit a jacket much tighter than I remember in the upper torso the other day. Only done a couple of months of Geoff's programming.
Here is how it might work. There is a baseline test of 10 RM and 5 RM. Then the client chooses and emphasis between an endurance, body composition, or strength emphasis. Recognizing that this is just a tweak and can't be totally separated.
Then depending on goals and baseline. There is a one year plan or 3 month and 6 month options that cycles through these goals or focuses on one of them. Even one emphasis is chosen, it could still cycle but a bit less.
A generalist goal might look like 5-6-4 / 6-7-5 / 7-8-6 or something. An endurance option might use more ladder options. A strength emphasis might alternate a default program with a 5 RM program each month. KB Strong type but adjusted to density programming.
Baseline benchmarks like @Mark Limbaga suggested could help the reader determine the next step. Someone like me might be directed to repeat a month depending on the volume achieved. It could be worked out algorithmically like the Planstrong workout plan or the Dan John workout generator. Or sold as an addon to the Strongfirst app. Not the expert here, just imagining what would open my wallet.
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guardian7
Level 6 Valued Member
Yeah, there is that ah #$@@ moment as you pause in the rack before the last rep of your high rep day and you realize the extended rack is not helping...
I also remarked on the deceiving simplicity of the programming that you only figure out a couple weeks into the program.
guardian7
Level 6 Valued Member
I am finding the giant 1.0 is doing a bit of everything as you mention. I did not really expect body composition results at my age. Giant 1.1-2 as the default. Add blocks or programs depending on goals.
WxHerk
Level 8 Valued Member
@taro , you were absolutely right. I tried the 32’s this evening and hit 11 C&P. I’d not pressed double 32’s in a couple years or so and had the “ear worm” reminding me. Therefore, I accidentally put a touch of push into my presses. After resting ~3 minutes I did 15 sets of 4 in the next 21 minutes. It felt really good and started grooving the heavier press. Heart rate is attached:
guardian7
Level 6 Valued Member
I was going to stick to another of Geoff's programs that is FSQ and C&P as I thought KB strong looked too upper body focused, but underestimated the lower body and systemic demands of cleaning so much which I neglected like many others when I first started KB lifting. I swear my calves are growing.
Cearball
Level 6 Valued Member
I saw my girlfriend for the first time in a week & she said " have your arms gotten bigger!?" Out of the blue during a conversation.
Still on giant 1.0
Eating like a horse ATM to.
The other night after work (where I had two meals & a few snacks) I are 2 McDonald grand big Mac's & 40 chicken nuggets ?
?
Still on giant 1.0
Eating like a horse ATM to.
The other night after work (where I had two meals & a few snacks) I are 2 McDonald grand big Mac's & 40 chicken nuggets ?
?
LejonBrames
Level 5 Valued Member
This might be a dumb question, but so you guys squeeze your glutes on presses? I noticed it makes my presses WAY harder. I might need to do Giant 0.9 and drop a single rep from the sets next week 
guardian7
Level 6 Valued Member
This might be a dumb question, but so you guys squeeze your glutes on presses? I noticed it makes my presses WAY harder. I might need to do Giant 0.9 and drop a single rep from the sets next week
Yes, but it is only part of a chain of tension from mid-foot balance, to braced abs and lats and a tight grip. It takes practice. I suggest just getting into a good pushup position and holding it at the top to understand it better.
guardian7
Level 6 Valued Member
I am not the expert but it seems like a 60 rep range is more the intention of the program. It is a bit of everything, work capacity, hypertrophy, weight management, not a high rep endurance program.
Stuart Elliott
Level 6 Valued Member
Just finished 1.0 with a pair of 24s, it's my 3rd cycle through it , the previous 2 were with single bell 24 then 28kg but I was hitting over 20 sets on most sessions so decided to take the plunge with doubles.
I haven't worked with doubles for a few years, the double cleans are another level from singles. I took week 1 conservatively getting used to doubles, 7 x 5, 6x6 and 10 x 4. Week 3: 12 x5, 10 x 6, 16 x 4. Week 4 deload.
On rest days I'm still doing easy runs and some mobility work OS and mace.
We are having renovations to our house and are without a kitchen, so my diet isn't the best, but I've gained thickness across the shoulders, back, arms, some chest and legs, noticeably quads and calves, the only squats I'm doing are for warm up....I'm 45.
I haven't worked with doubles for a few years, the double cleans are another level from singles. I took week 1 conservatively getting used to doubles, 7 x 5, 6x6 and 10 x 4. Week 3: 12 x5, 10 x 6, 16 x 4. Week 4 deload.
On rest days I'm still doing easy runs and some mobility work OS and mace.
We are having renovations to our house and are without a kitchen, so my diet isn't the best, but I've gained thickness across the shoulders, back, arms, some chest and legs, noticeably quads and calves, the only squats I'm doing are for warm up....I'm 45.
guardian7
Level 6 Valued Member
Double KB is a game changer. Medium-high volume of half bodyweight more or less produces incredible metabolic demands to adapt. Guys in their 40s and 50s are experiencing hypertrophy on this program.
Dayz
Level 8 Valued Member
I saw my girlfriend for the first time in a week & she said " have your arms gotten bigger!?" Out of the blue during a conversation.
Still on giant 1.0
Eating like a horse ATM to.
The other night after work (where I had two meals & a few snacks) I are 2 McDonald grand big Mac's & 40 chicken nuggets ?
It is actually insane how many people are noticing huge hypertrophy gains on this program. I really want to the it a go but I don't have doubles yet! Can't wait until I do and I'm strong enough!
John Grahill
Level 8 Valued Member
I agree with this but I also think it depends on the individual and the resistance. With the 36s I was only in the 40 range during week one and mid 50s by the peak. Only 1 day did I get more than 60 reps. However, the program "worked ".