Barbell ISO Barbell Program.

[IMayAgainKnowChris]

Finally got a power rack and weights for my garage and after a year of KB training I want to get back in to practicing the bench, squat and deadlift (would also like to add ring dips/pull-ups and possibly overhead press if it would make sense.

Looking for a program to follow. I LOVE how the volume is laid out for the Bear from PTTP (the %’s and sets of 5) but I’m not sure if you could do it M/W/F (bench 3 days, squat Monday and Friday and deadlift Weds. Not sure where I could squeeze in OHP and dips either cause it’s pretty high volume it seems.
Any suggestions would be helpful for a routine.
Background: 36 year old male. 5’8” 175 lbs. Have done the big 3 lifts before but never got serious about getting strong at them. Did crossfit for a while. And more recently S and S, two cycles of ROP and the Giant 1.0, 1.1 and currently 1.2.

Main goal is to to get strong. Adding some mass would be a plus.

Just to throw it out there, my 3 lifts we’re always pretty low. I think my max bench was 205, ever. My squat was probably the same and the deadlift not that much more. Maybe 275? Always felt pretty weak with those 3.

 

[LukeV]

I’ve got good results from the Bear and usually did three exercises: press variant / row variant / leg press. I couldn’t recover in time for three Bear workouts weekly, usually gravitating to three workouts every nine days and sometimes adding another rest day. Personally, I wouldn’t do any accessory work with a full body Bear - it’s very draining as is. And (I’m like a broken record on this) carefully monitor your joints and take an additional rest day without concern. A lot of people, like me, can’t handle high volume deadlifts or deadlifts to failure so I would be careful about that, plus the deadlift isn’t a great muscle-builder so I wouldn’t be in a hurry to use it on a hypertrophy program. Good luck!

 

[Antti]

The volume can be too much but it could work for a short block.

Bench and squat on Monday, overhead press on Wednesday, bench and deadlift on Friday.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

If you didn't see this thread, I recently tried to start doing the Bear a few weeks ago and my numbers are pretty much exactly like yours (heigh, weight, lifting numbers) so you can check it out for some more feedback from other members: Sore lower back from deadlifts

After that session I had to revert back to regular PTTP for now as I was too sore. It was NOT from an injury, but my core and back was on fire for about a week. There is a link in there to an old thread that Pavel Macek posted on, and said that really the ideal was adding extra sets of presses to two days and deadlifts to one day, and that made much more sense. After I get more acclimated to doing a lot of deadlifts I will try the bear again, but just be warned that it may be too much if you're just getting back into barbell lifts like me.

 

[Steve W.]

@IMayAgainKnowChris

If you didn't see this thread, I recently tried to start doing the Bear a few weeks ago and my numbers are pretty much exactly like yours (heigh, weight, lifting numbers) so you can check it out for some more feedback from other members: Sore lower back from deadlifts

I saw @BJJ Shawn's post as I was writing this. I made the same suggestion on the thread he linked:

Here's a little higher volume PTTP variation I came up with (it keeps the % cycling structure and sets of 5, with a top set and back off sets) that works well for training 3x/week. It's a nice balance of adding a little more volume to the PTTP model but without really becoming a high volume program, and it keeps more of the added volume on lighter days. So it might play well with some of your variety additions.

This is based on a 4 steps forward/3 steps back wave cycle. You increase the top set poundage as in a normal PTTP structured wave cycle. You add volume by adding additional back off sets of 5 reps. But the twist is that you add more back off sets at the beginning of a wave when the poundage is lower, and fewer back off sets at the end of a wave when the poundage is higher. Therefore, the poundage progresses inversely to the volume (I call this approach "inverse progression PTTP").

At the beginning of a wave, you add 4 back off sets at 90% of the top set, and drop one back off set for each session in a wave. Then you reset at 4 back off sets at the beginning of the next wave. Here's an example to show how it might look for DL, based on a 405lb 1RM, starting at about 70%, and would bring you up to 85% in 4 waves.

285 x 5/255 x 4 x 5
295 x 5/265 x 3 x 5
305 x 5/275 x 2 x 5
315 x 5/285 x 5

295 x 5/265 x 4 x 5
305 x 5/275 x 3 x 5
315 x 5/285 x 2 x 5
325 x 5/295 x 5

etc.

You can manipulate the jumps between steps, and the starting point of each wave, however you want. This one works out to 10lb jumps for both, but they don't have to be the same. I tend to like slightly bigger jumps between sessions and a smaller jumps between waves. This gives a nice rhythm of easier, medium, and challenging sessions. You don't have a long ramp of easy sessions at the beginning and a death march of tough sessions at the end.

It doesn't matter that 4 step waves are out of synch with a 3 day training week. It just adds an extra element of variability, which is generally a good thing. And it doesn't matter if you are doing different lifts on different days and the cycles for the different lifts get out of synch.

You could also apply the same concept to more of a step cycle. Do a week at one top weight with 4 backoff sets. Go up in weight the next week with 3 back off sets, etc.

I used the inverse progression template (but not the same poundages as in the example above) with the trap bar DL and ended up with a personal best (465lbs) in that lift.

 

[IMayAgainKnowChris]

If you didn't see this thread, I recently tried to start doing the Bear a few weeks ago and my numbers are pretty much exactly like yours (heigh, weight, lifting numbers) so you can check it out for some more feedback from other members: Sore lower back from deadlifts

After that session I had to revert back to regular PTTP for now as I was too sore. It was NOT from an injury, but my core and back was on fire for about a week. There is a link in there to an old thread that Pavel Macek posted on, and said that really the ideal was adding extra sets of presses to two days and deadlifts to one day, and that made much more sense. After I get more acclimated to doing a lot of deadlifts I will try the bear again, but just be warned that it may be too much if you're just getting back into barbell lifts like me.

So he said to just stick to the 2 sets but do the 80% ones 2/press 1/deadlift. I did wonder about the high rep deadlifts.

 

[IMayAgainKnowChris]

@IMayAgainKnowChris

I saw @BJJ Shawn's post as I was writing this. I made the same suggestion on the thread he linked:

Here's a little higher volume PTTP variation I came up with (it keeps the % cycling structure and sets of 5, with a top set and back off sets) that works well for training 3x/week. It's a nice balance of adding a little more volume to the PTTP model but without really becoming a high volume program, and it keeps more of the added volume on lighter days. So it might play well with some of your variety additions.

This is based on a 4 steps forward/3 steps back wave cycle. You increase the top set poundage as in a normal PTTP structured wave cycle. You add volume by adding additional back off sets of 5 reps. But the twist is that you add more back off sets at the beginning of a wave when the poundage is lower, and fewer back off sets at the end of a wave when the poundage is higher. Therefore, the poundage progresses inversely to the volume (I call this approach "inverse progression PTTP").

At the beginning of a wave, you add 4 back off sets at 90% of the top set, and drop one back off set for each session in a wave. Then you reset at 4 back off sets at the beginning of the next wave. Here's an example to show how it might look for DL, based on a 405lb 1RM, starting at about 70%, and would bring you up to 85% in 4 waves.

285 x 5/255 x 4 x 5
295 x 5/265 x 3 x 5
305 x 5/275 x 2 x 5
315 x 5/285 x 5

295 x 5/265 x 4 x 5
305 x 5/275 x 3 x 5
315 x 5/285 x 2 x 5
325 x 5/295 x 5

etc.

You can manipulate the jumps between steps, and the starting point of each wave, however you want. This one works out to 10lb jumps for both, but they don't have to be the same. I tend to like slightly bigger jumps between sessions and a smaller jumps between waves. This gives a nice rhythm of easier, medium, and challenging sessions. You don't have a long ramp of easy sessions at the beginning and a death march of tough sessions at the end.

It doesn't matter that 4 step waves are out of synch with a 3 day training week. It just adds an extra element of variability, which is generally a good thing. And it doesn't matter if you are doing different lifts on different days and the cycles for the different lifts get out of synch.

You could also apply the same concept to more of a step cycle. Do a week at one top weight with 4 backoff sets. Go up in weight the next week with 3 back off sets, etc.

I used the inverse progression template (but not the same poundages as in the example above) with the trap bar DL and ended up with a personal best (465lbs) in that lift.

I like where you are going with this but I need to sit down and read this again throughly.
I might be missing something but what is the extra x5 at the end for example: 285 x 5/255 x 4 x 5? I get 285x5. And then 255x4. So is the x5 5 sets of the back off set of 255?

 

[BJJ Shawn]

So he said to just stick to the 2 sets but do the 80% ones 2/press 1/deadlift. I did wonder about the high rep deadlifts.

Yes, Steve W had posted it:

Barbell - Russian Bear Frequency

Hi folks, since I love press and deadlift, I learned about the Russian Bear routine. The book covers all but one question: Is it ok when I cut it in half? Like this: Monday:Bench 20x5 + HIIT Tuesday: Deadlift 20x5 Wednesday: Bench 20x5 Thursday: Deadlift 20x5 Friday: Bench 20x5 + HIIT...

www.strongfirst.com

"I regularly save interesting posts and advices from the forum - what I wrote above was recommended by Pavel few years ago here on the forum or the old forum or in the comments of some of his articles.

Question was:

In your book Power to the People you state that when on the BEAR program that “because of increased work load you may have to reduce training frequency… but not too much.” How many days do I train durring the BEAR? Do I do the press and DL same day or not? It does not specify that in your book.

Pavel wrote:

"...try benching twice a week and deadlifting once.""

 

[BJJ Shawn]

I like where you are going with this but I need to sit down and read this again throughly.
I might be missing something but what is the extra x5 at the end for example: 285 x 5/255 x 4 x 5? I get 285x5. And then 255x4. So is the x5 5 sets of the back off set of 255?

Yes, 1 set at working weight and 4 sets of 5 reps as backoff. I saved his template from my thread to give it a go in the near future as it makes a lot of sense to me, and I'd like to try it for a cycle or two.

 

[Steve W.]

I might be missing something but what is the extra x5 at the end for example: 285 x 5/255 x 4 x 5? I get 285x5. And then 255x4.

1 set at working weight and 4 sets of 5 reps as backoff.

Yes, I meant it as @BJJ Shawn said.

The "x5" at the end means 5 reps per set. So 285 x 5 means 285lbs x 5 reps (1 set) and 255 x 4 x 5 means 255lbs x 4 sets of 5 reps each.

I can see where it could be confusing because the top set is written as weight x reps (since it's just one set) and the back off sets are written as weight x sets x reps. For consistency, I should have written the top set as "285 x 1 x 5 reps."

For the last session in a wave, I just also just wrote it as weight x 5 (reps) because it's only one top set and one back off set so I didn't bother to put "x1" in there for either one.

 

[IMayAgainKnowChris]

Yes, I meant it as @BJJ Shawn said.

The "x5" at the end means 5 reps per set. So 285 x 5 means 285lbs x 5 reps (1 set) and 255 x 4 x 5 means 255lbs x 4 sets of 5 reps each.

I can see where it could be confusing because the top set is written as weight x reps (since it's just one set) and the back off sets are written as weight x sets x reps. For consistency, I should have written the top set as "285 x 1 x 5 reps."

For the last session in a wave, I just also just wrote it as weight x 5 (reps) because it's only one top set and one back off set so I didn't bother to put "x1" in there for either one.

I definitelt like the SOUND of it. Def seems a better option for deadlift if too many sets is what seems to be jamming people up.

 

[Steve A]

Finally got a power rack and weights for my garage and after a year of KB training I want to get back in to practicing the bench, squat and deadlift (would also like to add ring dips/pull-ups and possibly overhead press if it would make sense.

Looking for a program to follow. I LOVE how the volume is laid out for the Bear from PTTP (the %’s and sets of 5) but I’m not sure if you could do it M/W/F (bench 3 days, squat Monday and Friday and deadlift Weds. Not sure where I could squeeze in OHP and dips either cause it’s pretty high volume it seems.
Any suggestions would be helpful for a routine.
Background: 36 year old male. 5’8” 175 lbs. Have done the big 3 lifts before but never got serious about getting strong at them. Did crossfit for a while. And more recently S and S, two cycles of ROP and the Giant 1.0, 1.1 and currently 1.2.

Main goal is to to get strong. Adding some mass would be a plus.

Just to throw it out there, my 3 lifts we’re always pretty low. I think my max bench was 205, ever. My squat was probably the same and the deadlift not that much more. Maybe 275? Always felt pretty weak with those 3.

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[IMayAgainKnowChris]

Have you looked at Reload? Shop Books, Reload—Digital Download Book or Kindle Edition | StrongFirst

Just bought it off your suggestion. Didn’t look yet though. For 6 bucks I’m in. Haha.

 

[Midlife Beast]

The Greyskull LP is not a Strongfirst program, but lots of people on this forum have done it and reported good results. Since you're wanting to do Squat and Deadlift and OHP and Bench, it might make sense to do a program that natively includes all of those, rather than trying to adapt a program that is written to only include the deadlift and one pressing movement.

 

[Timo Keskitalo]

I tried PTTP inspired training for a while with

Mon SQ+assist
Tue BP+DL
Thu SQ+BP
Fri DL+assist

Because squat is THE workout for me, I wouldn't train pure PTTP. I would put OHP to Fri on that program. What I really liked in this was the flexibility. I could be sick for a week and still catch up by doing like 12 workouts in 16 days.

In my opinion the most important thing about PTTP was the tension. Pavel advised to move slowly 5s up and 5s down (not for DL) to teach keeping the tension through the whole rep/set. That's why this program didn't need much auxiliaries. And PTTP 2x5 was enough. Although I did 10-15 reps warm ups in 3-4 warm up sets. Nowadays I'd do less warm up reps / set. As assist I did 2 exercises. On top of every workout some abs.

If/when you get to move faster there might be room for the bear. At first doing the bear on Mon Tue Fri didn't look pretty in my eye but actually it should be good for recovery between SQ and DL. I have never done the bear but I think if you want to squat also you can do bear only once a week for each move.

Volume work in the bear should be with 80% of the top weight and keep short rest. It will make a big difference. And you have to stop them right when you feel fatigue. If it's only 2 sets of 80% volume then be it. After two months it will be more.

 

[IMayAgainKnowChris]

I tried PTTP inspired training for a while with

Mon SQ+assist
Tue BP+DL
Thu SQ+BP
Fri DL+assist

Because squat is THE workout for me, I wouldn't train pure PTTP. I would put OHP to Fri on that program. What I really liked in this was the flexibility. I could be sick for a week and still catch up by doing like 12 workouts in 16 days.

In my opinion the most important thing about PTTP was the tension. Pavel advised to move slowly 5s up and 5s down (not for DL) to teach keeping the tension through the whole rep/set. That's why this program didn't need much auxiliaries. And PTTP 2x5 was enough. Although I did 10-15 reps warm ups in 3-4 warm up sets. Nowadays I'd do less warm up reps / set. As assist I did 2 exercises. On top of every workout some abs.

If/when you get to move faster there might be room for the bear. At first doing the bear on Mon Tue Fri didn't look pretty in my eye but actually it should be good for recovery between SQ and DL. I have never done the bear but I think if you want to squat also you can do bear only once a week for each move.

Volume work in the bear should be with 80% of the top weight and keep short rest. It will make a big difference. And you have to stop them right when you feel fatigue. If it's only 2 sets of 80% volume then be it. After two months it will be more.

Good point about the volume work. I definitely wondered when people were saying it “got to them” after a while if it was because they were taking longer than the prescribed 60 second rests between the back off sets and just grinding the reps out even though they were supposed to have shut it down for the day at that point.

 

[IMayAgainKnowChris]

I tried PTTP inspired training for a while with

Mon SQ+assist
Tue BP+DL
Thu SQ+BP
Fri DL+assist

Because squat is THE workout for me, I wouldn't train pure PTTP. I would put OHP to Fri on that program. What I really liked in this was the flexibility. I could be sick for a week and still catch up by doing like 12 workouts in 16 days.

In my opinion the most important thing about PTTP was the tension. Pavel advised to move slowly 5s up and 5s down (not for DL) to teach keeping the tension through the whole rep/set. That's why this program didn't need much auxiliaries. And PTTP 2x5 was enough. Although I did 10-15 reps warm ups in 3-4 warm up sets. Nowadays I'd do less warm up reps / set. As assist I did 2 exercises. On top of every workout some abs.

If/when you get to move faster there might be room for the bear. At first doing the bear on Mon Tue Fri didn't look pretty in my eye but actually it should be good for recovery between SQ and DL. I have never done the bear but I think if you want to squat also you can do bear only once a week for each move.

Volume work in the bear should be with 80% of the top weight and keep short rest. It will make a big difference. And you have to stop them right when you feel fatigue. If it's only 2 sets of 80% volume then be it. After two months it will be more.

I downloaded GSLP and it looks like what I’m looking for. Only issue is I couldn’t find out what % I should be using for my x5’s in the article. I’m guessing 80%? I downloaded the link but the program calculator looks like it’s form windows 95 and is impossible to navigate on my iPhone. Will have to try it on a computer when I can….

Seems pretty legit though. 2 working sets, one AMRAP. Could throw in my dips/pull-ups. Press/squat twice a week. Dead once.

Only thing is that I’m not sure how comrade Pavel would feel about the 2.5 lb weight increases. Haha. Not having micro plates myself, I wonder if it would be possible to just jump 5lb/week instead of 2.5 every session? Any thoughts? (Also still my original question about what the starting working weight should be)

 

[LukeV]

I downloaded GSLP and it looks like what I’m looking for. Only issue is I couldn’t find out what % I should be using for my x5’s in the article. I’m guessing 80%? I downloaded the link but the program calculator looks like it’s form windows 95 and is impossible to navigate on my iPhone. Will have to try it on a computer when I can….

Seems pretty legit though. 2 working sets, one AMRAP. Could throw in my dips/pull-ups. Press/squat twice a week. Dead once.

Only thing is that I’m not sure how comrade Pavel would feel about the 2.5 lb weight increases. Haha. Not having micro plates myself, I wonder if it would be possible to just jump 5lb/week instead of 2.5 every session? Any thoughts? (Also still my original question about what the starting working weight should be)

Greyskull has a strength and hypertrophy emphasis, and I believe microplate progression is less controversial where the goal includes muscle. You're going AMRAP every workout on Greyskull, so there is plenty of growth stimulus, even the reset to lower weight brings you close to failure (just at higher reps)

 

[IMayAgainKnowChris]

Very much appreciate all the help I think I’ll love greyskull a shot since it seems like exactly what I was looking for.
Bear still interests me but doesn’t seem AS compatible with 3 days full body/some accessory work.

 

[Steve Freides]

I’ve had success running the Faleev 5x5 Pavel spoke about in an article on Tim Ferriss’ blog.

-S-