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Kettlebell Why are cleans overlooked?

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Opiaswing

Opiaswing

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With a goal of long term strength, fitness and LONGEVITY, I am considering swings and cleans only for a few months alongside yoga and light band exercises.

My bells are heavy (50kg + 64kg) and I feel a lot of the time flexibility, mobility and other such aspects of the 'health and fitness' spectrum are overlooked when going for strength and power.

My question is, why are cleans so often overlooked? It seems they're only ever regarded as a 'halfway house' type of movement between swings and snatches and not a notable exercise of their own. The day after some 50/64kg cleans my biceps, rear delts, lats, traps and glutes are fried. It has really helped my winged scapula, likely due to the fact it is almost like a high row.

Secondly, what is your take on this type of routine? I feel it may be a good chance for me to address a lot of flexibility and imbalance issues whilst continuing to gain strength and power in the simplest way possible.

addendum: recent injury and shoulder weakness has lead me to this.
 
I like cleans, they're the basic movement voor the Pull motion in my program, with some Renegade Rows.

In my opinion flexibility for the sake of being flexible is overrated and probably prone to injuries aswell. Just move, do quality exercises, like the big 6, and you'll get more mobile while training for strength. Like Pavel said in Relax in to Stretching, your body limits range of motion if it isn't sure the range of motion can be used safely. If you can't control the range, you can't get the range.

Therefore I also wouldn't do a ballisitic exercise as a 'strength' exercise. Sure everything is fried. But you are able to work around issues because of the ballistic nature.

I would recommend doing Get Up's for your shoulders and do cleans & swings for conditioning purposes, combined with you Yoga.
 
I love cleans. I really, really, really love them.

If I had to choose only one KB exercise to do for the rest of my life, I'd pick cleans. They work the entire posterior chain, from the calves (no, it's not a typo) to the traps and everything else in the middle.

I'm particularly fond of the double kettlebell clean plus rack carry combo.
 
I didn't think they were particularly overlooked. I suppose, because a lot of folks here are following S&S or the Rite of Passage there's a lot more talk of get-ups, presses, swings and snatches but the 'loaded clean' and double KB clean are integral parts of the ROP and muscle-building programmes.

Heavy cleans are a great alternative to the snatch as they're similar in terms of skill requirements but the clean is more forgiving to those with shoulder problems.

As both the clean and the swing are ballistic pulling movements, I would recommend the inclusion of some kind of press/grind to fill things out. If get-ups are not on the cards for you, you might want to consider KB floor presses (possibly from a hip bridge position for additional range of motion and shoulder comfort) in addition to your yoga and band exercises.
 
Unless you cheat clean the single bell, or snatch it/them (singles, doubles) and then lower it/them into the rack, you are practicing the cleans in many of our core drills: press, push press, jerk, front squat, windmill (clean to press to windmill), bent press (clean to rack to bent press rack). Hence, I would say "integral" instead of "overlooked".
 
Adam
the cheat clean as taught in the online course is simply the easiest way for those new to KBs to get the KB into position for the MP or squat - without banging up the wrists etc....

Overtime a lot of folks will learn the clean via the Cheat clean without struggling.

Cleans are not overlooked - especially if you look at someone the LCCJ programs from Strong Endurance etc...
 
Adam R Mundorf said:
They aren't even taught in the StrongFirst online course. The student is instructed to pick up the kettlebell with two hands to the rack. Just an fyi.
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Experienced shows this is way to go - swings + cheat cleans (and spending enough time in the correct rack) > easy to progress to clean proper (also, you can start to work on your press right away, if your overhead mobility is all good). If the student hurries too much with the cleans, it may take much longer.

EDIT: Chief beat me with faster and better answer.
 
Opiaswing said:
swings and cleans only for a few months alongside yoga and light band exercises
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I've mentioned to my wife a few times that a good combo for a long, strong life would be swings, yoga, and walking. I mean, Grey Cook has said that a TGU is like loaded yoga, and I do think you could accomplish of lot of the same stuff with actual yoga. I think 10x1 TGU's is a more efficient use of time, but there are many reasons to do yoga. As long as you're doing it in a way that promotes strong, stable shoulders, I don't think you're missing out.
Generally speaking, if you're going to pick one ballistic exercise, I do think there is a hierarchy. Snatches and cleans are better than 1H swings, which are better than 2H swings (of course, they're all good). Personally, I do snatches because I can use my snatch bell for presses, TGU's, goblet squats, etc. I like simple. If I was doing my snatching program (lots of short, heavy sets) with single-bell cleans, I would have to grab another, lighter, bell for other exercises. Not really a big deal. But I like simple ;).

A big pull (cleans) and a press (yoga). Sounds solid.
 
Someone mentioned ROP.

If you're doing ROP then you're doing as many (possibly more ;) ) cleans as you are presses.

Cleans just aren't viewed to be as cool as swings or snatches by many people.

But, they're possibly the secret sauce for presses, squats and jerks.
 
I'd not say "overlooked" so much as not talked about.

I often include cleans, especially with bells heavier than I can press. I have had it driven home time and time and time and time again that a press is only as good as its preceding clean. I can't tell you how many so-so cleans have resulted in less than optimal presses. Thus, I sometimes practice heavier cleans to ensure good presses.
 
My uneducated opinion: I think the swing is getting the most love for the general practitioner due to daily training being better suited to GPP. Like the OP said, a good session of heavy cleans will beat you up - the recovery cost is higher, I don't think it would be suitable for daily volume. If you want to develop some real power, cleans beat swings hands down - but I don't think a lot of folks are after that kind of instantaneous power production.

I think the snatch gets more love than the clean for the same reason. A snatch is more power production than a swing, but lower recover cost than a clean.

I'm fond of saying that racking a clean is like getting punched. And not everybody wants/needs to learn how to get punched.
 
Bret S. said:
+1 @Steve W. concurs here as well I believe..
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Definitely. My staple KB ballistics are single snatches and double cleans. I don't do very many swings these days.

The double clean makes it possible to load the ballistic hinge very heavy, but with a moderate grip demand since the weight is split between hands. I also find the catch of the double clean very satisfying, and holding the bells in the rack has a lot of carry over to presses, front squats and just feeling strongly tied together. It's one of those drills that just feels good and natural to me.

I also love double front squats, and double cleans and double front squats go together like vodka and pickle juice.

On the other hand, I don't really like single cleans -- they're just a necessary evil to get a single bell to the rack.
 
Steve W. said:
I also love double front squats, and double cleans and double front squats go together like vodka and pickle juice
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^^Yes^^
Lately I'm partial to goblet squats, though the load is lighter than DFSQ the tension demands pair well with Renegades which are part of my 'essentials' list Supersets of these within the A+A format are very nice
 
Been doing a lot of double cleans lately. I notice that even with lighter ones, say 20kg, they fatigue my forearms more than swinging with a heavier singles. Another note would be the the trajectory seems to be more vertical rather than horizontal than swings. Not sure if it's the wider stance, but I find it more challenging to get a deeper hinge. Might be a flaw in my current technique. Still working on it...

Subjectively, I have some weird sense of statisfaction when doing the double cleans. It's enjoyable to see them pop nicely into the rack when watching them in the mirror.
 
I like cleans and fairly heavy doubles. But, to do them as a stand alone in my philosophy means having heavy KBs. heavier than I'm liable to use for other exercises = not the best investment of equipment $.

And yes, you get a lot of clean include with most upright KB lifts. All that said, if you have the heavy bells I'd use them but would also want to include some form of squat. Otherwise you should get or maintain solid upper body fitness doing cleans with those loads.
 
Cleans are a staple lift with a bar when training for most athletic endeavors. But even with a bar you seldom hear someone ask, "how much ya clean". So it's kind of a kept secret. Just do them and feel good in the thought that you got something up on the other guy.
 
The Clean is one of the easiest movements to do poorly. The globe can smack the wrist or shoulder, and an incorrect grip can be tough on the palms. It’s also on of the exercises that can result in loss of balance when performed improperly.

The learning curve for the Clean is just as steep as the learning curves for other exercises, so it seems that detailed instruction is needed.

There’s a ton of YouTube vids that demonstrate how to do them with proper form. Some are excellent, some are not.

In a way, KB Cleans are sort of a “quick deadlift,” and like barbell Cleans, are great for building strength, especially when a heavy weights are used.
 
Opiaswing said:
My bells are heavy (50kg + 64kg)
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50 and 64kg or lbs??? If your Cleaning and Swinging a 64kg with a tore up shoulder, God Bless you.. Cleans are not over looked, just not sexy. Cleans are one of the top exercises for Armour Building in contact sports, football, wrestling, etc. And yes the bridge to many of the sexy movements, Press, LCCJ, Jerks, Front Squats, etc. So they are included. If you want to see programs with cleans you have to look to the old school iron guys.. That being said technique is an issue with Cleans. You will see the popular shoulder pull/twist, the hop off the shoulder, the pitch out in front, and the famous poor timing, BANG. Cleans take timing, timing takes practice, practice something not sexy?? Boring. For these reasons People tend to shy away from Cleans cause they don't want to get beat up.. But you want a heavy Press, Deadlift or Squat?? Heavy Cleans for the win
 
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