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Other/Mixed Failure or not

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

On this article, there are different arguments against training to failure

In this one, failure is mentioned as a way of training
Even if we are talking slow twitch training, in my mind, slow or not, failure is failure...

That's a little confusing for my uneducated mind eheh

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Training to failure (or close thereto) is a very simple way of eliciting training effect, particularly if your goal includes hypertrophy. I know it’s not the only way or even best way but when you reach failure you know the job is done, there’s no ifs or buts. My own experience supports that if you’re time poor then single set training to failure (classic HIT) is the best way to build muscle. You can be in and out of the gym in 20 minutes, feel good and look great. But … you’ll look better if you take more time and train with multiple sets in which case failure doesn’t seem as important.
 
Training to failure (or close thereto) is a very simple way of eliciting training effect, particularly if your goal includes hypertrophy. I know it’s not the only way or even best way but when you reach failure you know the job is done, there’s no ifs or buts. My own experience supports that if you’re time poor then single set training to failure (classic HIT) is the best way to build muscle. You can be in and out of the gym in 20 minutes, feel good and look great. But … you’ll look better if you take more time and train with multiple sets in which case failure doesn’t seem as important.

Yeah, I'm pretty fine with HIT if your goal is hypertrophy. It's not the 90s anymore - I think it's okay to acknowledge that HIT has a place without going completely stupid and over-applying it to every kind of training.

Ditto.

In hypertrophy blocks, I usually train from 0-1 RIR.

Exceptions for barbell compounds like deadlifts for reps, presses, or squats, where it's more like 2 RIR.

I have no concerns about bad effects of repping out isolation exercises like 1 arm DB rows.
 
Hello,

On this article, there are different arguments against training to failure

In this one, failure is mentioned as a way of training
Even if we are talking slow twitch training, in my mind, slow or not, failure is failure...

That's a little confusing for my uneducated mind eheh

Kind regards,

Pet'
The first article is more referring to bodybuilding and going to failure while using traditional rest periods etc... The slow fibers using 10min rest periods to let the acid build up clear out ..
 
You can be in and out of the gym in 20 minutes, feel good and look great. But … you’ll look better if you take more time and train with multiple sets in which case failure doesn’t seem as important.

I'm usually in and out in 90 - 120 min. :(
 
The first article is more referring to bodybuilding and going to failure while using traditional rest periods etc... The slow fibers using 10min rest periods to let the acid build up clear out ..

It's all contextual.

I never do power or strength training to failure.

On the other hand, methodologies like blood flow restriction (BFR) are intended to induce extra metabolic stress by using light weights to voluntary failure + reduced metabolite clearing. I'll do BFR blocks from time to time.
 
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It's all contextual.

I never do power or strength training to failure.

On the other hand, methodologies like blood flow restriction (BFR) are intended to induce extra metabolic stress by using light weights to voluntary failure + reduced metabolite clearing. I'll do BFR blocks from time to time.
I agree and am not debating that... Was just pointing out the difference and the application of the types of training directed in the articles... I've run a few of the programs that use the "to failure" followed by long (10min) breaks that Pavel talks about (SF 930 pressing plan and the HIIRT plan by Craig maker)
 
Aww man, you’re clearly training past your anabolic window and letting your test drop and cortisol rise. Think of all the gains you’re leaving on the table!



;)

That's why you eat mid-session, bro.

But don't eat out of plastic Tupperware, cause that gives you estrogen, man.
 
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To me, failure is a tool best used with high rep/submax loading. The heavier the load relative to 1rm the more important it is to avoid it, as you need more sets to build volume.
 
training to failure
Training To Failure Frequency

Maxium Strength is effectively developed when an exercise is InFrequetntly trained to failure during a Training Periodization Cycle.

Think of a Training Periodization Cycle as Warm Up Sets/Weels that perpare you for your Top Workout Set; Final Training Week in this example.

4 Week Periodization Training Cycle Example

1) Week 1: This is Warm Up Week/Set 1. The load needs to be light and easy.

2) Week 2: This is the Second Warm Up Week/Set 2. It is slightly heavier than your first Set/Week but still easy.

3) Week 3: This is your Third Warm Up Week/Set 3. This is a moderately heavier load than the previous week. In this scenario, it last of the Warm Up Weeks/Sets before your finaly Top Week/Set.

4) Week 4: This the week that you are all in. The exercise load/instenstiy is pushed to the limit of failrue or close to it. The determinate factor of if you push it to failure or how close you go to it depends on you mental drive.

Pushing yourself to failure in the final week, fully innervates the development of Maxium Strength. It elicits...

OverReaching

OverReaching means you have slightly OverTrained.

Once OverReaching has been achieved in the final Training Periodization Cycle a New Cycle is begun.

Continuing to push a Training Program once OverReaching has taken place, leads to OverTraining.

"Wound Healing"

OverReaching produces low to moderate trauma to the body.

OverTraining produces much greater trauma to the body.

"Wound Healing" means the less trauma placed on the body, the faster it recovers; which is what OverReading is.

Pushing youself into OverTraining, produces greater trauma to the body. The body take longer to recover.

Metaphorically speaking, OverReaching would be like having a common cold and pushing too far into OverTraining would be like having something like Covid.

With that said, let look at the misconception of...

DeLoad and ReLoad

One of the misconceptions of this approach is once OverReaching occurs and progress stops or goes backwards, individuals "DeLoad" for one or two workouts and then "ReLoad" to the previous poundage they were using.

This is a short term, short sited approach to making progress. More Recovery Time is required for increases in strength and/or size dependent on the Training Program.

With that in mind, the optimal approach is a...

New Training Periodization Cycle

The New Training Periodization Cycle means starting over with light, easy load with the exercise you were using or using new exercises,

Doing so, promotes...

Active Recovery

Starting over with light easy loads in the New Training Cycle promotes recovery. Recovery is where increase in strength and/or size occur.

The same Training Periodization Cycle is applied as noted above.

Each week, the load/intensity is progressively increase. The final week being pushed to failure or very close to it.

This cyclical training approach complies with...

The General Adapation Syndrome

This is the foundaiton of a well written and excuted Training Program.

There are three stages to it.

1) Alarm Stage

The Alarm Stage of training is similar to getting some type of vaccine shot.

It reacts to a vaccine shot by increasing antibodies.

In a Training Program. the same survival mechanism occurs; an increase in strength and/or size take place.

2) Resistance Stage

The Resistance Stage response to a vaccine shot is the increase of antibodies that conquers the infection.

The same is true in with the Resistance Stage of a Training Program; the body becomes stronger.

Thus, there is some validity to, "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger".

3) Exhaustion Stage

This stage need to be avoided.

In training it occurs when you have pushed past OverReaching and into OverTraining. Continuing to drive deeper into OverTraining lead to a longer recovery period.

Summary

1) Training To Failure


This is an effetive method of increasing strength and/or size when it is limited to the final week of training.

Going to failure every training session is contraindicated. It eventually lead to OverTraining; going backward.

As someone once said, “Stimulate, don't annihilate.”

2) Technique Devlopment Training Movements


Training To Failure is contraindicated for Movement in which the obective is to Develope Technique.

With each Repetition in a Movement, Muscle Fatigue occurs. Technique is altered. Poor Technique is developed.

3) Auxiliary Exercises

Reseach (Dr Tom McLaughlin, PhD Biomechnaics/former Powerlifter) and Anecdotal Data (over 40 years of the Westside Powerlifting Method and decades of the Olympic Lifter Training Protocol) have demonstrated the the most effective method of ensuring Maximum Strength is achieved/maintained is with Auxiliary Exercise that are similar in nature to the Technical Movment.

Rescemt research on this was just published that demonstrated this, as well.

Transfer Between Lifts: Increased Strength in Untrained Exercises
Strength and Conditioning Journal: June 2022 - Volume 44 - Issue 3 - p 101-106

ABSTRACT

The principle of specificity confers that physiological adaptations to exercise reflect the specific stimuli applied during an exercise training program. When applied to resistance training (RT), the principle of specificity implies that the acquisition of strength, which is often measured as a 1 repetition maximum, is specific to several variables of an RT program such as intensity, contraction type, and motor pattern. Although the principle of specificity holds true, a phenomenon called “transfer” also occurs when a lifter increases their strength in an exercise that they did not train. For example, if a lifter performed lunges in lieu of back squat, but their back squat strength increased anyway, there would be transfer between the lunge and back squat. This column summarizes recent research that reported transfer between bilateral exercises, unilateral to bilateral exercises, and single-joint to multiple-joint exercises and provides several recommendations for practical applications along the way.

...Multi Joint exercises were a more efficient option for increasing maximal strength...

...They compared the effect of kettlebell swings to explosive DL (maximal effort with 30% of 1RM) in resistance-trained men (.1 year). After 4 weeks, both groups significantly increased their maximal DL strength.


..."It is notable that merely 8 sessions of kettlebell swing increased DL 1RM by 8 kg, meaning that SCSs (Strength and Conditioning Specialist) can cycle through both exercises and prescribe training blocks that use kettlebell swings as a primary hip hinge pattern (14)
Barbell - Powerlifting noob? Post 5
 
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To @pet' s original question:

It depends, haha.

For strength, my preference would be to avoid failure, train the same move multiple days a week, etc. Standard SF protocols.

For hypertrophy:
I am no hypertrophy wizard, but I have seen some compelling arguments from those that focus on it in recent times. While they ultimately say that you should do the lifts you enjoy, many of them prefer machines, and training close to failure, if not to it. The rationale behind this is that machines provide stability, so you can target specific muscle groups with greater loads, AND the current thinking is that it is the "number of hard sets per week" that drives hypertrophy, via mechanical tension. If I am understanding the term "hard sets" correctly, it means the appropriate number of sets where you get close to muscle failure. I usually see them say somewhere around 2 RIR.

This is a great page with a TON of articles. Sorry/not sorry some of it is kind of technical:

Main page:

Article list:

 
For hypertrophy:
I am no hypertrophy wizard, but I have seen some compelling arguments from those that focus on it in recent times. While they ultimately say that you should do the lifts you enjoy, many of them prefer machines, and training close to failure, if not to it. The rationale behind this is that machines provide stability, so you can target specific muscle groups with greater loads, AND the current thinking is that it is the "number of hard sets per week" that drives hypertrophy, via mechanical tension. If I am understanding the term "hard sets" correctly, it means the appropriate number of sets where you get close to muscle failure. I usually see them say somewhere around 2 RIR.

Yep, just a couple of nuances:

1. Machines vs not: If you're using free weights, you're almost certainly going to hit "technical failure" before absolute failure. Example: you're doing barbell curls and you're fatigued enough that you start to do cheat curls, using a lot of body english. When that happens, you're done -- your set is now 'hard enough'.

This is actually a bonus, as technical failure is a pretty good indicator that you're around 2 RIR-ish.

2. We don't 100% understand, mechanistically, what causes hypertrophy. If it's tension, where does metabolite induced fatigue fit in? Is 'the burn' just another way to create mechanical tension via the size principle exhausting all the little fibers first? Or is there something else going on in terms of adaptation?

If tension is 'the thing', how come people on anabolic steroids can gain muscle even when being sedentary and not training at all?

There is lots we don't understand yet as hypertrophy studies (as opposed to strength or power) just really started to take off in the last 10 years, whereas performance studies have been going on for over 50 years.
 
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