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Kornfuzed

Zene

Hi gang ... back at it after years of neglect (work, 3 wives, kids, life, etc.). When I could not do a single pullup I knew that I was in trouble.
Everything is new. Boils down to there isn't enough time in the week to train the 13 major muscle groups recommended by the current data using MEV and MAV data. Researched a bunch and the cookie cutter routines aren't even close.
Can someone help?
I do not want a specific program, just some practical advice to help resolve my problem.
Thanks, Zene
 
Zene said:
Hi gang ... back at it after years of neglect (work, 3 wives, kids, life, etc.). When I could not do a single pullup I knew that I was in trouble.
Everything is new. Boils down to there isn't enough time in the week to train the 13 major muscle groups recommended by the current data using MEV and MAV data. Researched a bunch and the cookie cutter routines aren't even close.
Can someone help?
I do not want a specific program, just some practical advice to help resolve my problem.
Thanks, Zene
Click to expand...
Don’t worry about about 13 major muscle groups or MEV/MAV. EVERYTHING you do right now will be “effective volume.” There are so many effective ways to train that it is hard to just have a “conversation.” We can limit it by starting to talk about what you want to do, what you want to achieve, what you enjoy doing, and what time/equipment you have available.
 
Yep, a small number of compound exercises can be used to train every muscle in the body, no need for 2 hour workouts 3-4 times a week. The compound movements train your muscle to work in synergistic fashion and that's when real strength is developed that you can use in the real world of lifting and carrying things around your home or job.
 
Zene said:
Hi gang ... back at it after years of neglect (work, 3 wives, kids, life, etc.). When I could not do a single pullup I knew that I was in trouble.
Everything is new. Boils down to there isn't enough time in the week to train the 13 major muscle groups recommended by the current data using MEV and MAV data. Researched a bunch and the cookie cutter routines aren't even close.
Can someone help?
I do not want a specific program, just some practical advice to help resolve my problem.
Thanks, Zene
Click to expand...
Two days a week with a focus on strength/power, two days a week for your motor, two days a week with a focus on mobility.
And it's a challenge to give training advice to someone you know next to nothing about, just sayin.
If your only problem is pull-ups I'd say get stronger and loose weight.
 
You should check out Dan John’s stuff. The Easy Strength Omnibook gives a million or so ways to get stronger under the circumstances you’re dealing with, and they’re all variations on a theme that Pavel came up with.

In a nutshell, you should try to hit the five basic movements (push, pull, hinge, squat, loaded carry) as often as your schedule allows, which can easily get 10-15 sets per week for all the major muscle groups.

Also, if you say Dan John’s name enough times, he might show up and give better advice than you can get from the likes of me. You can also shoot him an email to maybe get an answer on his podcast.

Also, everything StrongFirst does is first rate. I personally had great success with Simple and Sinister and Power to the People when I was getting back into shape after my first kid was born. But given the forum of this conversation, I assume you’ll get other (far better) responses about those options.
 
A question:
What is MEV and MAV data?

For the OPs question—Get a kettlebell and S&S or Iron Cardio along with a few sessions with a StrongFirst Certified Instructor and get off to an individualized approach.
 
Brett Jones said:
What is MEV and MAV data?
Click to expand...
Minimum Effective Volume - any less than that you won't see any adaptations
Maximum Adaptive Volume - any more than that and you won't see additional adaptations and may see negative adaptations

Here is an article from Mike explaining it:
rpstrength.com

Training Volume Landmarks for Muscle Growth

Basic Assumptions When discussing how much training we should be doing to grow the most muscle we can, it helps to become familiar with some important theoretical concepts. These concepts or “landmarks,” as we refer to them, can help you understand how we can come to conclusions about how much...
rpstrength.com rpstrength.com
 
John K said:
Minimum Effective Volume - any less than that you won't see any adaptations
Maximum Adaptive Volume - any more than that and you won't see additional adaptations and may see negative adaptations

Here is an article from Mike explaining it:
rpstrength.com

Training Volume Landmarks for Muscle Growth

Basic Assumptions When discussing how much training we should be doing to grow the most muscle we can, it helps to become familiar with some important theoretical concepts. These concepts or “landmarks,” as we refer to them, can help you understand how we can come to conclusions about how much...
rpstrength.com rpstrength.com
Click to expand...
Thank you @John K

IMO this is only something you can fugure out by getting started and collecting data over time.

As Patton is quoted as saying: "A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."

I would remove the "violently" from the quote for exercise.
 
Brett Jones said:
Thank you @John K

IMO this is only something you can fugure out by getting started and collecting data over time.

As Patton is quoted as saying: "A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week."

I would remove the "violently" from the quote for exercise.
Click to expand...
I love Brett's advice, take something easy to follow like the Simple and Sinister Program. Pursue perfection of two very useful skills, and begin to figure out what your appropriate volume is.
 
jmc5 said:
You should check out Dan John’s stuff. The Easy Strength Omnibook gives a million or so ways to get stronger under the circumstances you’re dealing with, and they’re all variations on a theme that Pavel came up with.

In a nutshell, you should try to hit the five basic movements (push, pull, hinge, squat, loaded carry) as often as your schedule allows, which can easily get 10-15 sets per week for all the major muscle groups.

Also, if you say Dan John’s name enough times, he might show up and give better advice than you can get from the likes of me. You can also shoot him an email to maybe get an answer on his podcast.

Also, everything StrongFirst does is first rate. I personally had great success with Simple and Sinister and Power to the People when I was getting back into shape after my first kid was born. But given the forum of this conversation, I assume you’ll get other (far better) responses about those options.
Click to expand...
The Good Fairy of the North told me to come visit! Thanks for the mention...much appreciated. I like how you sum it...far better than I do.
 
Zene said:
Hi gang ... back at it after years of neglect (work, 3 wives, kids, life, etc.). When I could not do a single pullup I knew that I was in trouble.
Everything is new. Boils down to there isn't enough time in the week to train the 13 major muscle groups recommended by the current data using MEV and MAV data. Researched a bunch and the cookie cutter routines aren't even close.
Can someone help?
I do not want a specific program, just some practical advice to help resolve my problem.
Thanks, Zene
Click to expand...
You didn't ask for this but maybe it's helpful to you.

I'll give you the advice I give to my students when they think they don't have time to do a full training session. It's your program for when you don't have time for your program. It's is based on two assumptions:

Doing any training is better than doing no training.​
​
60 seconds. You can rationalize your way out of doing many things, but you'll have a hard time explaining why you couldn't find the time if it takes less than 60 seconds.​

The Program: Two-hand swing a kettlebell you guesstimate you can do 15 - 25 reps in perfect, crisp form. Stop before it becomes anything less than perfect, but if you miss that, be sure to stop after your first non-perfect rep. None of the usual "stop signs" apply except maintaining perfect form and the speed you started with.

How To Progress: Don't think about this. Do what you can do on each day. Respect the idea of maintaining perfect, crisp form.

Can I apply this to other lifts: Sure. If it's a one-handed ballistic, switch hands every rep or every few reps. If it's a grind, use the rep range of 8 - 12, roughly half what you'd do for a ballistic.

Other: If you're on Kettlebell AXE or S&S, start with that weight.

Examples from my own training:

Ballistic: Kettlebell Two-Hand Swing @ 40 kg x 20 (my current AXE weight for one-hand swings x 4 OTM)

Grind: Barbell Deadlift @ 80% x 10

-S-
 
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