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Old Forum 16---->24-------------->32

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TravisS

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When I used a 16kg and moved to a 24 the jump was pretty decent but nothing like going from the 24 to a 32.  They are the same kg jumps but going from the 24 to the 32 feels like double what the 16 to 24 did...

anyone have any speculation on why this would seem this way?
 
Without seeing you, or knowing anything about you, it's hard to say, because it was the exact opposite for me. One guess would be, the heavier you go, the more technique needs to be dialed in. You can get away with things at a lighter weight that you can't at a heavier one.
 
I think everyone hits a point where the low hanging fruit of beginner's gains is all picked and progress slows down.

By beginner's gains, I mean gains that come from nervous system efficiency and form efficiency, and mobility and stability gains (from practicing the main exercises themselves as well as from any additional movement skill work that might be done along with the main training program).

These gains can come quickly and you can keep making gains in these areas for quite a while, depending on training history ("beginner" doesn't have to refer to being a beginner to strength training), motor learning ability, injuries/restrictions, etc.

But eventually there comes a point of diminishing returns. For a lot of people, but certainly not all, it seems to be moving up to 32kg, which makes the simple goals of S&S very appropriate.

At a certain weight, a "threat response" kicks in where you are beyond your comfort zone. Moving through and beyond this point takes consistent effort, attention to detail in refining technique, and intelligent progression, which can be as much about disinhibition and feeling comfortable with the load as much as getting stronger (or, on second thought, maybe that IS getting stronger).

IMO, when you hit this point, patience becomes very important, as it's easy to hit a plateau and/or get injured if you push too hard. I use the analogy of trying to break through a wall. If you keep charging at the wall trying to bust through it, you're probably just going to hurt yourself. If you can keep the wall moving backward, you can move past where it was without ever hitting it.

In a way, moving up a bell ought to get EASIER as the bells get heavier, since a 4 or 8kg jump is a smaller percentage of the total weight. This may be true for some people to a certain point, but most people will experience a clear sticking point where progress becomes harder.

 
 
Thanks for the responses.  When I mentioned about it felt like a big jump… when I went from a 16kg to a 24, I could do all the swings and getups from day 1 of the using the new weight.  It took me a bit of time but strength wise it didn’t seem to be a problem.

Now that I’ve moved(2 days ago) to a 32kg.  I have to slowly add in sets of 10 swings(only 2 sets now) and I am doing 2 of 5 getups with the 32.  I feel like I could probably do more but don’t want to strain anything and am in no hurry to advance faster than my body wants me to.

I agree with you Steve that the beginner gains may be slowly fading…. I know I will get stronger and it may take a little more time but just my body’s initial reaction was like “woah”!
 
My theory is that most people are able to handle a little bit over 20kg with natural born strength. Once the average joe moves up to 32 and higher you actually have to train yourself to be able to handle it.
 
At a certain weight, a “threat response” kicks in where you are beyond your comfort zone. Moving through and beyond this point takes consistent effort, attention to detail in refining technique, and intelligent progression, which can be as much about disinhibition and feeling comfortable with the load as much as getting stronger (or, on second thought, maybe that IS getting stronger).
Steve, thanks for this explanation, it resonates with me to see it written out like you did. When I went up to the 40kg my body almost protested but through really focusing on what I had learnt in the last few years, it eventually had no choice but to adapt - the "threat" seems to have gone and the body and mind seem quite comfortable with such a massive weight dangling above my head.

I think there is also something to what John Doe says. A male in reasonable shape should be able to fairly rapidly progress to a 24, and the 32 seems to be where the real work starts.

 
 
One more factor that I think plays a role in this phenomenon is grip strength. I find that if I can swing and clean a weight with a secure and confident grip, that is the first key to overcoming the threat response. As long as I have to worry about/concentrate on holding onto the bell, the threat arousal will be present.

Even though Pavel doesn't dwell on it in the book, IMO this is the biggest reason why the emphasis on 1 arm swings in S&S makes so much sense. You have to develop the grip to hold on to the bell before you start trying to add volume with it.

 
 
Travis, 16kg is very light for a man.  You make quick technique improvements and move up.  Later you are past the point of diminishing returns.
 
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