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Kettlebell Quick and the dead vs ROP

brsmnky804

Level 2 Valued Member
Hey All,

So stoked to be here. Have been crushing progress metrics en fast route to hitting timed simple standard, finally. I’ve been thinking about what will come next for me. After reading the below article, which was written before Q and D came out, I’m curious where Q and D fit into this brillian roadmap made by Dan John.

Any feedback from @Pavel or @Dan John would be killer. Any feedback from anyone who’s been where I’m at would also be killer.

Finding a lot of freedom and joy workout out at home and never hitting a gym. Have a good selection of bells at home that is only getting gooder.

Thanks!
 
I'm not a huge fan of QnD unless it is in conjunction with more training. ROP is a largely "complete" program, especially if you add in pullups and the variety days of heavy double cleans and front squats and getups.

I'm not sure if you meant to link something, but I see no roadmap.

I think the biggest determining factors would be:

1. What do you want out of your training? (e.g. If you want a big overhead press, QnD probably isn't a good fit - mismatch of goals.)
2. What can you do (e.g. technical skills)? (e.g. If you don't know how to snatch or clean, ROP isn't probably a good fit - mismatch of skills.)
3. How much time per day per week do you have/want to spend? Some programs require more time than others.
 
John K said:
I'm not a huge fan of QnD unless it is in conjunction with more training. ROP is a largely "complete" program, especially if you add in pullups and the variety days of heavy double cleans and front squats and getups.

I'm not sure if you meant to link something, but I see no roadmap.

I think the biggest determining factors would be:

1. What do you want out of your training? (e.g. If you want a big overhead press, QnD probably isn't a good fit - mismatch of goals.)
2. What can you do (e.g. technical skills)? (e.g. If you don't know how to snatch or clean, ROP isn't probably a good fit - mismatch of skills.)
3. How much time per day per week do you have/want to spend? Some programs require more time than others.
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1) general physical strength, mobility, and endurance.

2) I can pretty much do anything - snatch cleans swings - all good.

3) I can allot a 90 minute window per day, or separately two hour windows per day. I prefer working out at home for this reason.
 
brsmnky804 said:
My main goal is to get stronger while I work on my endurance pursuits. I am an adventure cyclist. Not competing. And I want to overcome aging and continue to build strength in full ranges motion.
Click to expand...
If you are already training on other days, I think alternating phases of Q&D (+ maybe some low volume strength training à la Easy Strength) + AXE Swings and Presses could be great fit.

Alongside AXE you could use various pressing plans, based on your ambitions. This posts lists some of the different plans available: Kettlebell - KB Pressing Plans Based on Different RM
 
John K said:
I'm not a huge fan of QnD unless it is in conjunction with more training. ROP is a largely "complete" program, especially if you add in pullups and the variety days of heavy double cleans and front squats and getups.

I'm not sure if you meant to link something, but I see no roadmap.

I think the biggest determining factors would be:

1. What do you want out of your training? (e.g. If you want a big overhead press, QnD probably isn't a good fit - mismatch of goals.)
2. What can you do (e.g. technical skills)? (e.g. If you don't know how to snatch or clean, ROP isn't probably a good fit - mismatch of skills.)
3. How much time per day per week do you have/want to spend? Some programs require more time than others.
Click to expand...
www.strongfirst.com

Things Are Going So Well, Help Me Screw It Up, Part I | StrongFirst

The road to mastery is, and should be, a long one. The following is a systematic approach to mastery using programs created by Pavel.
www.strongfirst.com
 
brsmnky804 said:
My main goal is to get stronger while I work on my endurance pursuits. I am an adventure cyclist. Not competing. And I want to overcome aging and continue to build strength in full ranges motion.
Click to expand...
brsmnky804 said:
1) general physical strength, mobility, and endurance.

2) I can pretty much do anything - snatch cleans swings - all good.

3) I can allot a 90 minute window per day, or separately two hour windows per day. I prefer working out at home for this reason.
Click to expand...
QnD could be an effective "minimalist" program to improve your adventure cycling. However, while it will get you results, I think you will get more results with a less minimalist program. However, the "trick" becomes balancing your lifting with your cycling.

How much and how often do you cycle? By "adventure cyclist" do you mean you cycle similar to how I might backpack, or is there an "adventure cycling race?" What are typical sport demands?

@offwidth is our local cyclist extraordinaire. He may have more specific advice.

brsmnky804 said:
I got to read ETK. Confused by the programming still.
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What confuses you?
 
brsmnky804 said:
My main goal is to get stronger while I work on my endurance pursuits. I am an adventure cyclist. Not competing. And I want to overcome aging and continue to build strength in full ranges motion.
Click to expand...
Because you're getting a good amount of cardio on your bike, I recommend you consider the ROP presses and, instead of the swings, deadlift a barbell. I have done that a lot and it's always been good for me. If you have ROP questions, there is an ROP Support Group thread on our forum you might want to check out, see

Kettlebell - ROP support group

I have been working steadily on the ROP for a little under a year and have made great progress. I have pressed the 28 five time each arm and completed the ssst with the 16 (207 reps). Currently I am back on the pm with intentions of restarting with the 28 for presses and the 20 for snatches In...
www.strongfirst.com

-S-
 
John K said:
QnD could be an effective "minimalist" program to improve your adventure cycling. However, while it will get you results, I think you will get more results with a less minimalist program. However, the "trick" becomes balancing your lifting with your cycling.

How much and how often do you cycle? By "adventure cyclist" do you mean you cycle similar to how I might backpack, or is there an "adventure cycling race?" What are typical sport demands?

@offwidth is our local cyclist extraordinaire. He may have more specific advice.


What confuses you?
Click to expand...
I suppose I cycle the way you back pack but I could do more day to day rides locally in summer. And sometimes I ruck on the beach.

I’m confused by the unprogrammed days when some people do s and s? Forgot how they’re referred to in the book.
 
Q&D is awesome but it is over in less than 20 minutes. If you want to train more than that I would also include a strength program. ROP is excellent too and is my go-to program for kettlebell training.
 
brsmnky804 said:
I suppose I cycle the way you back pack but I could do more day to day rides locally in summer. And sometimes I ruck on the beach.
Click to expand...
Do you train for the cycling when not on your trips? e.g. "I cycle 3 days a week for at least 30 minutes."
brsmnky804 said:
I’m confused by the unprogrammed days when some people do s and s? Forgot how they’re referred to in the book.
Click to expand...
I would suggest re-reading the book. You have three days a week where you are doing clean and press along with a ballistic exercise (either snatch or swing), and optional pull-ups (highly recommended). Then you have 2 variety days where you can do "other stuff," but ETK book recommends heavy double cleans, front squats, and getups.

You could of course alternate clean and press days with swing/getup (S&S) days, and I suppose you could still call that ROP, but it is different. Still could work just fine, as long as you handle going overhead 5-6 days a week fine.
 
John K said:
Do you train for the cycling when not on your trips? e.g. "I cycle 3 days a week for at least 30 minutes."

I would suggest re-reading the book. You have three days a week where you are doing clean and press along with a ballistic exercise (either snatch or swing), and optional pull-ups (highly recommended). Then you have 2 variety days where you can do "other stuff," but ETK book recommends heavy double cleans, front squats, and getups.

You could of course alternate clean and press days with swing/getup (S&S) days, and I suppose you could still call that ROP, but it is different. Still could work just fine, as long as you handle going overhead 5-6 days a week fine.
Click to expand...
I do train. But right now working two jobs. That makes training with a bike very challenging in terms of time and recovery. But s and s has been a blessing in that regard. I do s and s in the morning and at 2am I’m still out working guys younger than me.

If I had more time for on the bike training - and I may soon - q and d becomes perfectly fit.
 
Another option would be Iron Cardio with press ladders + some ballistics.

OR, if you have the budget, the K1 plan from Hardstyle Method could be something fro you from what I have heard.
Described in this thread as an RoP "park bench" program. Press ladders + AXE Half Snatches + X:

K1 Program from Hardstyle Method

Just wanted to post some love for this terrific program by Tim Almond. It doesn't come cheap, but man, this is brilliant for people like me. Catch phrase: When is strong, strong enough? So the program builds Power Endurance in much the same way that the SEE does, but as a complete program. No...
www.strongfirst.com
 
Given that you get a lot of endurance work with cycling, ROP would be a good choice..

as the plan has been updated constantly, one the options is to simply do 100 snatches timeless or just do timeless s and s on non press days
 
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