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Old Forum A rave and a question

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Ray Robinson

Ray Robinson

Level 5 Valued Member
Quick question but first I had to rave about the S&S program.  I'm 50 years old and had been doing the ROP pretty consistently until last summer.  I felt like I was really developing strength, but the heavy days were really draining me (I had gotten to 5x4 ladders with a 24 kger.)  Then I separated my shoulder in a bicycling accident and while convalescing I bought and read the S&S book.  A few months ago my orthopedist gave me the thumbs up on kettlebells, so I've been following the S&S program (with modifications, unfortunately.  I still have some shoulder pain so while I can swing without problem, I'm using an adjustable kettlebell to gradually add weight on my TGUs.)  But what I love about S&S is that a) I feel like I'm working the entire body with just two exercises, and b) it really is a 'recharge' and less of a workout.  It leaves something in the tank for the rest of my day, which is important.

Oh yeah, anyway, my question:  why do swings come before TGUs?  The S&S book seems to indicate doing swings first, but in ETK Pavel called for grinds before ballistics.  Maybe the get-up isn’t a grind but it seems to have similar qualities to grinds (constant tension on the muscles, for example).
 
Geoffrey, agreed.  Theoretically, 'power before strength' makes sense, but at the same time the philosophy in ETK and S&S is to build strength and I wonder if swings before get-ups compromises that goal.
 
Ray, there is practical reasoning behind "power before strength."  It's the way we're wired, and you could prove it to yourself pretty easily by switching the order, as was the case in the earlier program, the Program Minimum from Enter The Kettlebell.   If you do strength work and then try to be really explosive, you'll find the latter suffers.  Of course, whatever comes second is going to suffer somewhere, but explosiveness suffers more when done after strength than the other way around.   This difference is particularly important in light of the research Pavel discusses in S&S about the value of explosive training - it has to have top priority for S&S to produce its results.

Consider that, on the continuum which has explosiveness first and strength second, strength-endurance comes third, and plain endurance comes fourth.  S&S has you doing the first and second of these things, while the swings in the Program Minimum are performed as strength-endurance work rather than maximally explosive work - you'd be doing the second and third things in my list of four rather than the first and the second.    There is nothing wrong with this but, in our view here, it's not as good as doing the first and second things as directed in S&S.

Hope that helps you understand why S&S is the way it is.

-S-
 
Ray, welcome to StrongFirst!

As Steve and others have pointed out, generally you train power before strength and endurance last.  Swings and snatches belong in both power and endurance categories.  The S&S swing plan is less tiring than the ROP snatch and swing plan.
 
Hi Pavel, thanks for the welcome!  And while I’m at it, thanks for writing S&S; I really love the regimen.  I also appreciate that comments that you and Steve gave to my question; they have helped clarify things for me.  I had been doing swings first but now I know why.
 
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