Old Forum An intelligent approach to ES or the 40 Day Program
- Thread starter Dan John
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BrianCF
Level 7 Valued Member
Dan, do you think I could do Easy Strength twice a week, Simple and Sinister Twice a Week and a Crossfit class twice a week? Would I get the same results?
Try it, when you miss all of your goals because of your inane interpretation of strength, don't blame me.
Honestly Dan, one of the most annoying parts of being on any forum is people who just won't do as instructed. Whether it be ETK, 10000 swings, Easy Strength, 5/3/1 (which really cracks me up because people focus on the assistance work not the big lifts completely not seeing the forest through the trees) I still can't believe the number of questions that were asked when you laid out the 10k swing program. It's only 20 workouts! As a normal working stiff, is it really going make a difference if you don't do a certain exercise for 4 weeks?
I didn't bench for four years when I got into kettlebells. Didn't touch a barbell. Guess what, when I benched for the first time, because I learned how to use tension, I did 20 lbs. more for my 3 rep max. Go figure. We have all the time in the world to train. You can't be everything at once.
Try it, when you miss all of your goals because of your inane interpretation of strength, don't blame me.
Honestly Dan, one of the most annoying parts of being on any forum is people who just won't do as instructed. Whether it be ETK, 10000 swings, Easy Strength, 5/3/1 (which really cracks me up because people focus on the assistance work not the big lifts completely not seeing the forest through the trees) I still can't believe the number of questions that were asked when you laid out the 10k swing program. It's only 20 workouts! As a normal working stiff, is it really going make a difference if you don't do a certain exercise for 4 weeks?
I didn't bench for four years when I got into kettlebells. Didn't touch a barbell. Guess what, when I benched for the first time, because I learned how to use tension, I did 20 lbs. more for my 3 rep max. Go figure. We have all the time in the world to train. You can't be everything at once.
Norville Barnes
Level 5 Valued Member
Nice article. I followed the Easy Strength program for about 6 months, changing up the movements every 4-5 weeks and made great gains, was not burnt out, and stayed injury free.
I am "back on the bus" for a raw PL meet in April, then it's back to the five for two sets of five!
I am "back on the bus" for a raw PL meet in April, then it's back to the five for two sets of five!
Matt
Level 3 Valued Member
While I agree with what's posted here, I must admit I didn't get the impression (I have the book) that Easy Strength is the 40 day program, AND I thought it was a concept that allowed strength to be maintained or increased while training a particular athletic disciple.
If that is correct, then I don't really have a feel for what an Easy Strength program is at its core, meaning the basic concepts used to both create one (which would depend on the person training and on what they are training as their athletic disciple) and how to tweak one (deloading or increasing workload). There are obviously examples in the book, but to "follow the program" is not as easy as it might seem if you don't fit the examples. I understand that the "why's" for a particular program might not be understood - "they just work from our experience" may be the only justification that can be given. Which is fine. Perhaps some of that intuition (which would allow variation within a program) can't be communicated in a book?
If that is correct, then I don't really have a feel for what an Easy Strength program is at its core, meaning the basic concepts used to both create one (which would depend on the person training and on what they are training as their athletic disciple) and how to tweak one (deloading or increasing workload). There are obviously examples in the book, but to "follow the program" is not as easy as it might seem if you don't fit the examples. I understand that the "why's" for a particular program might not be understood - "they just work from our experience" may be the only justification that can be given. Which is fine. Perhaps some of that intuition (which would allow variation within a program) can't be communicated in a book?
AndyMcL
Level 5 Valued Member
Matt, based on my understanding (possibly quite limited), most of Easy Strength does not set out to give you a specific program, it gives you a lot of guidelines to follow and implement in your own training. It does give several examples of how to apply those "rules," and one of those examples is the 40 day program. Easy Strength has made the 40-Day Program more popular, and is sometimes used interchangeably. But, if you look at Dan John's blog you will see examples of his current training. This training follows the Easy Strength guidelines in terms of movements, loading, frequency, rep ranges etc. Most of the books is not a "one-size fits all" plan. But, if you follow the rules, and tweak the program for your needs, you will be following Easy Strength.
Geometry analogy: In this example the 40-day program is a square, and easy strength is a quadrilateral. All squares are quadrilaterals, but not all quadrilaterals are squares. So, if you follow the 40-day blueprint, you are doing an easy strength plan. Did I just make it more confusing?
This is the part where Dan arrives and tells me I have it completely backwards. But, I hope this helps.
Geometry analogy: In this example the 40-day program is a square, and easy strength is a quadrilateral. All squares are quadrilaterals, but not all quadrilaterals are squares. So, if you follow the 40-day blueprint, you are doing an easy strength plan. Did I just make it more confusing?
This is the part where Dan arrives and tells me I have it completely backwards. But, I hope this helps.
Matt
Level 3 Valued Member
Hi Andy,
Thanks for your post. It was clear what you said and I went back to have a good look at ES and can see what you (and Pavel/Dan) mean. I guess for my first reading of ES I was being a bit too analytical/technical, and was coming from a solid 5x5 heavy program where I had a better understanding of why I was doing what I was doing. Yet now I appreciate from experience there are differences in strength alone, and there are limits to strength when heavily training another discipline.
So I disagree with most of my above post... Thanks again.
Thanks for your post. It was clear what you said and I went back to have a good look at ES and can see what you (and Pavel/Dan) mean. I guess for my first reading of ES I was being a bit too analytical/technical, and was coming from a solid 5x5 heavy program where I had a better understanding of why I was doing what I was doing. Yet now I appreciate from experience there are differences in strength alone, and there are limits to strength when heavily training another discipline.
So I disagree with most of my above post... Thanks again.
AndyMcL
Level 5 Valued Member
Matt,
Easy Strength is not an easy read, I still have to flip back to it quite often in order to glean insights. Books like S+S are "do this" programs, but Easy Strength does not do that. It forces you to tinker and learn.
Dan,
Thank you for your words. I'm sure there is some long german word for an idea that gets more complicated the more you try to simplify.
Easy Strength is not an easy read, I still have to flip back to it quite often in order to glean insights. Books like S+S are "do this" programs, but Easy Strength does not do that. It forces you to tinker and learn.
Dan,
Thank you for your words. I'm sure there is some long german word for an idea that gets more complicated the more you try to simplify.
Norville Barnes
Level 5 Valued Member
The "40 Day" workout is refined and made better (and simpler) in Dan's book Intervention. He tried it, then made it better as he says. You are always doing the five basic movements, but he suggests varying them every ten workouts - incline bench press instead of flat, for example. I found going to twenty workouts then changing up made for better gains. I followed the directions, then made it better for me. He also suggests cycling the load, instead of all 5 sets of two mix in 5-3-2 and six increasing singles. Keeping a post it in your workout journal helps keep it straight.
Dan John
Level 6 Valued Member
Exactly. Honestly, what kind of coach/mentor/athlete would I be if I didn't try to refine things over an eleven year period. That's the issue: some are trying to take a decade long experience of discussion, training and experimenting and skipping the decade long experience!
Frankly, I took excellent notes of first 40, found the issues, tweaked it, tried it again. Maybe 15-20 times?
Frankly, I took excellent notes of first 40, found the issues, tweaked it, tried it again. Maybe 15-20 times?
Matt
Level 3 Valued Member
Thanks Dan for that insight. I can appreciate how it would be frustrating for you, and also can now see that experience/process in how ES is written.
While I don't have that decade long experience, I am a lone-trainer and so am forced to ask questions, understand and learn while training/gaining experience. I'm glad I discovered Pavel early on and now your work. Thanks.
While I don't have that decade long experience, I am a lone-trainer and so am forced to ask questions, understand and learn while training/gaining experience. I'm glad I discovered Pavel early on and now your work. Thanks.
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