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Old Forum Block Training: ETK/PTTP

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Good afternoon!

Who has followed the Easy Strength template of alternating 2 week blocks of PM with PTTP?

I am interested in this methodology.

I want to get my deadlift to 405.  I have topped out at a conventional 390 a few years ago at around 190 lbs bodyweight using Easy Strength's, Steve Justa's singles routine.  I have successfully gotten up to 380 using PTTP.  I get to the high 300's and usually hit a wall.  Some caveats: I am also fused at the spine, T1-L2 (Surgery was 16 years ago to correct sever thoracic kyphosis).  I don't have any issues with pain.  I have successfully nailed 200 snatches in 10:00 with 24kg.  I can own the 32kg in the PM.  Conditioning has never been a necessary weakness for me; my lack of strength has.

Why alternating the blocks intrigues me?  Am I hitting a wall in the high 300's because of my fusion; is 390 my genetic limit given my skeletal shortcomings?  Or, because of my skeletal shortcomings, working a 2 week block of deadlifts, and then coming back to them 2 weeks later may allow for more recovery time, and focusing on the PM may allow for movements that compliment the deadlift?

Lastly, I am not a powerlifter and chasing some number isn't necessarily a priority.  The alternating of programs therefore makes sense to me as I need well-rounded fitness for my profession as a trainer, and as a high level recreational alpine skier (50 days per year on snow).  BTW, the PM has done more to my skiing fitness than any other program in the 18 years I have trained, and 28 years I have skied.

 

The 405 goal is something I have failed to attain over several attempts.  My stubbornness and unwillingness to quit is the only factor.  I actually have some insecurity about not getting 405.  I feel weak because of this failure (especially as a trainer who should be stronger than most).

 

Thanks in advance!

 
 
Res,

1st: let's see a video of your swings.

2: own the 40 in the PM and "play" with the 48 now and again, and you'll pull 405 - that is, if you can surmount the mental barrior that you seemed to have created.

3: if you respond to this before I get home today, remind me of the DL schedule in PTTP.  It's been awhile since that read.

-Al
 
I think Al's second point holds a gold nugget. Mental barrier!

 

Good luck with breaking your record!
 
Al, well said:

"Own the 40 in the PM and “play” with the 48 now and again, and you’ll pull 405."
 
That's right, Pavel.  I've seen it way too many times now: the swing really pushes up your DL numbers IF you're explosive with a heavy (for you) bell, i.e., you "own" it.

Too many people look great while swinging - the technique is there - but they are not explosive ... they don't yet own it.

I starting to think that the DL is a demonstration of your strength, while the swing builds your strength.  And this makes sense from a physics perspective ... it takes much more force to accelerate an object than to merely move it.

-Al
 
"I starting to think that the DL is a <em style="font-size: 13px;">demonstration</em> of your strength, while the swing <em style="font-size: 13px;">builds</em>your strength.  And this makes sense from a physics perspective … it takes much more force to accelerate an object than to merely move it."
Al, it is one ways to look at it, especially for folks with mileage.  I remember asking Mr. Haney, Donnie Thompson's coach, how, in his opinion, kettlebells had built Donnie's DL without DLing (766 to 832 in 9 months).   He said: "They work the muscles without killing them."
 
Pavel,

Good point about mileage.  I pulled in the low 500's when I was actively competing 1000 years ago (I jest, it was only 1995).  I messed up my back and shoulders in 96.  An Army enlistment didn't do any wonders for my back, shoulders and knees. I think I remember you and I discussing this in Houston.

After almost 20 years since my last pull, I was feeling strong (I should stop here to define "strong" as meaning structurally sound - feeling good in my own posture - and not  "DL strong") probably due to the last couple of years of nothing but swings, get ups, loaded carries ... etc - you know the story ... so I decided to enter the TSC to give myself that goal.  I pulled 350 ("weakly")  just before Thanksgiving, with no DL training.

You threw S&S out there and I did my modified version for over a month including while I was on the road for 3 weeks during the Holidays.  I ended up pulling 405 in early JAN with minimal DL training (not none, but minimal).  I got on a singles program soon after and pulled 450 at the TSC.

Now, I am coming back to load after 20 years, so I may not count for evidence, but ... two things: 1) I've seen this in more novice lifters as well; and, 2) back to the original statement: I have a lot of mileage.

I will pull 500 again ... and now, I know how to do it, smart-like :)

Thanks for all that you do, Pavel.

-Al
 
This interests me - the difference between grinding strength for a max-dead pull and explosive strength for a heavy swing.  I remember when reading Easy Strength (correct me if that's incorrect) that this is mentioned by Pavel and conceptually this really intrigued me and gave me an intuitive aha as to why my 5x5 training was limiting and why I should incorporate swings as well.

It would be a great discussion - I''d love to listen to one about it anyway.
 
Res,

This is one of those, "I know it when I see it" things, so let me try to put it into words.

The easiest way to say it is that you're not connected to the bell.  I want to see the glutes connected to the bell ... when they move, it should be like a trigger going off, and the bell should fire out of the hole.  You seem as relaxed in the plank as you are just before your partner said "ok go", at ~ 0:02.

I want to see tight, not relaxed.  From what I can see, you're going through the motions of the swing, but you're not DOING the swing, if that makes any sense.  To get the benefits that you're looking for, DL transfer, you need max tension in the plank AND in the hinge ... and max explosion to get into each position.  Throw the bell as far forward as you can with your hips, and then hang on.  The swing is a lot less about bell height, and a lot more about hip snap.

Don't expect tight to be your body's reaction to the bell's actions - and I think this is the problem with a lot of folks ... MAKE yourself tight first.  Practice doing this.  Then, take that tightness and explode against the bell.

Watch this for comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvb35p-EiQo

Even in the first 6, there is a very tight plank ... and there is no mistaking the tension levels in the last 6.

Otherwise, your mechanics look fine ... if I had to nitpick, you're too far behind the bell when you begin off the ground, and perhaps your trunk is a bit too close to horizontal in the hinge ... but as you work on getting tight, and moving explosively, these small gigs should clear up as well.

My suspicion is that you don't get tight enough when you DL either.  Care to post a video?  Just getting tight in the DL may get you over the 405.

Does any of this make sense?
 
Al-

Thanks for posting.  This is all very true.  I don't know if I have ever swung a bell with that level of tension you describe and demonstrate in your swings.  I have always swung for really high reps; seems like I have always tried to remain as loose as possible to conserve energy.  For instance, I swing the 40kg with the same technique I demonstrated in my video, and have successfully used it for ladders 1-20-1 (400 swings) by remaining "loose."  If I had been tight, I would have fatigued I suppose, not hitting the high numbers.

 

Yet, I probably need to reset, and consider practicing with sets of 5 using high tension techniques.

Here is a video of my deadlift practice a few days ago with 265.

http://youtu.be/IgDXHT2FoVE

Also a picture of my spine pre-post surgery.  Notice when they corrected my kyphosis; it isn't perfect and therefore I will always have thoracic kyphosis when I approach the bar due to the metal-fused section.  My technique is a bit unorthodox.  I do drop my hips a bit, and I have found this protects my back as I have injured myself at times previously with a true "hinge" with the hips high .  I tend to be a little squatty in my pull.

http://youtu.be/BLi5cPlIlpc

 
 
Al, thank you for your kind words!

You will pull 500 and more—and this time around with less effort.  Consider adding light strict dead stop bottom half DLs once a week, say 275 x 4/4.  A precise squeeze off the platform, 1sec pause below the knee, down, reset, continue.
 
Res,

Sure, using swings for high volume will have to see you "looser" - different focus.  Hardstyle swings, however, will transfer over to your DL, and you can always temper your tension for goals like high volume.  Get good at swinging with high tension - you can always get looser if you need to.

Your DL tension is little difficult to see from that angle and distance, but again, you don't look connected, other than the reactionary tension of pulling against a load.  You know better then me ... are you tight?  I don't see you grabbing the ground with your feet, or pulling your shoulders down into your pelvis - before you pull.  Your hips are not too low.

I can't speak to your condition, but you seem to be doing fine to me.

It must be fun to walk into a courthouse or through airport security with you :)
 
Pavel,

I pull sumo-style ... do you recommend dead-stops for sumo-style as well? 

Thanks for your advice.

-Al
 
Al-

 

On dead's, I am certainly tight.  I squeeze the bar hard, lats  hard, abs hard!  Drive through the ground.  Squeeze glutes hard at the top.

I just need to keep at it.

Thanks!
 
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