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Old Forum Cycle, or just get stronger?

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Matt

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For about 3months now I've been doing a (modified?) "Easy Strength" routine along with kayaking and finally am feeling a bit knackered.  Well my (only) real heavy lift, my deadlift, is a bit sub-max and that could be due to fatigue (I have just incorporated some heavy walkouts, 5 singles) or a slight tight lowerback (had a glute-cramp mid lift, 2nd last set of 3 reps, didn't know how to stretch it out and didn't want to ask someone to have a fiddle with it !! so did my last set at max and my back tightened up).  So that aside - in general I haven't cycled at all really, and if anything have increased my kettlebell weights, reduced my rest time, inc. some weighted chins/dips maxes, kept my DL steady.  I'd be curious to see if I adjust to this latest change in my routine or if I've reach a "volume-max" now.  Today did an equal best kayak too.   (I should say my maxes are with respect to this routine, which are less than my old maxes pre-kayak-easystrength).

Makes me wonder what the guidelines are for cycling in an easy strength style routine?  Reps, endurance (ie kayaking time), rep-max weights...?  Lots of variables to tweak.

I'd admit I don't have as good a  feel for the philosophy of Easy Strength (have the book) in contrast to coming from a heavy powerlifting style 5x5 routine before this, where the CNS concept was easy to create cycling around.  I notice the differences in strength when combining lifting with kayaking, and still feel normal fatigue that you'd expect  - yet it's quite different to how I used to feel lifting heavy.

Thanks for any ideas/suggestions.
 
Matt, what are your goals?  Are you a lifter who kayaks, a kayaker who lifts, or...?

Kayaking can be rough on the back and might not play well with DLs.
 
Hi Pavel,

 

I am a lifter who kayaks.  Goals were primarily lifting goals and kayaking was more for rehab (yet I love it now too).
 
I guess my goals were initially to better or keep my "old" (when 5x5 training) DL rep max and weighted chin rep max with an hour of kayaking a day.  I soon realised that the kayaking fatigues muscles differently and those smaller fatigued muscles would ultimately limit my DL and chin rep maxes.

As well, finally being able to use kettlebells I learnt that there is more than one type of strength, and I like the idea of ballistic strength better than raw strength, so my goals changed again.

So I guess I have tried to see how close I can get to those goals (DL, Chin rep max, kayaking, kettlebell strength with a 32).
 
Sounds very scattered. I suggest learning as you go. You're doing a bunch and that's cool. Maybe it's as simple as adding 2 pb and banana sandwiches and seeing how you feel in 2/3 weeks. Seriously.
 
Hi Eric,

 

Thanks - :) I like your suggestion.  Never tried that actually.    Might be a good thread to start - best workout sandwiches/ secret strength snacks.

It may sound scattered, but simplistically it all comes down to being ninja strong,  DL max and weighted chin max.  Though I do enjoy a heavy walkout come squat...
 
But your right Eric, being serious, learning as I go has been interesting.

I still wonder if the body can continually adapt, as Easy Strength style training might allow different recovery so the strength gains can be gradual but continual.  OR is cycling is still useful as an eventual plateau will be reached etc.
 
Matt, my suggestion is to find a DL plan that incorporates kettlebell work (e.g., Deadlift Dynamite) and switch from kayaking to stand up paddling.
 
Pavel,

I would like to hear a bit more regarding your take on kayaking.  I moved to the coast recently and am very interested is sea kayaking and kiteboarding.  I don't know if I want to get into both of them or just one of them.  There might not be enough time to do both of them justice.  I have played around with sea kayaking and love it but haven't purchased a sea kayak yet.  I haven't tried kiteboarding yet, although i bought a 2 square meter trainer kite to learn how to handle the kite while it is still cold.  When it warms up a bit I will start taking kiteboarding lessons.

Rolling and bracing in a sea kayak can definitely tweak the back and shoulders if the mechanics aren't always right.  Mobility and proper positioning are key.  But interacting with the water in a sea kayak is an awesome feeling.  Learning how to handle rough water and surf would be a lot of fun.

Even though I haven't kiteboarded yet, it looks to me like it would allow me to stay in more of an ergonomically correct position.  The force of the kite is connected to a harness.  The bar is used to control the kite rather than to support the force of the kite.  I don't plan on doing any of the crazy tricks for a while, if ever.  But going fast and jumping are on the agenda.

Is your advice to Matt based on your feelings about the ergonomics of kayaking?
 
Jeffrey, yes, I advised Matt to stand up because sitting is rough on your back and rowers from various disciplines  have back problems.

Kite boarding, surfing, paddle boarding, etc. allows you to stand and use good back mechanics.
 
Matt, I will add a note from my own experience.

I used to be an avid bicyclist, a "roadie" whose handlebars were (and still are)  a couple of inches lower than his saddle.   Bicycling (and other bent-back activities) do not play nicely with deadlifting for me.

I am OK to deadlift and then bicycle, just a little stiff when the bike ride starts, and I won't be my fastest that day.  I used to do this on the one day per week when my wife and I would ride together - I'm faster than she is, so not being at my best on the bike didn't really matter.

I am not OK, however, to bicycle and then deadlift.  The more time I've spent in the saddle, the more time I allow my back to return to normal before picking up a heavy weight from the floor.

New Zealand Physical Therapist, Robin McKenzie talks about this in "Treat Your Own Back." We don't really have conscious control over the connective tissue in and around our lower spine, and if you spend enough time with your lower back stretched, the ligaments will relax.  In the interest of full disclosure, I have to add that bike riding makes my back feel fantastic right afterwards but the good feeling is short lived, and often by the end of the day, that fantastic feeling has turned into the pain of pressure on my bulging discs.

I no longer ride a bicycle around town as I used to, I walk instead.  Walking is great for your back.   I only get on the bike a few times a year, and I make sure that I plan my lifting to allow for at least a day or two completely off deadlifting afterwards.

Dr. Stu McGill calls long distance road bicycling a "self-selecting" activity - those who end up doing it professionally are self-chosen from among the minority of people whose lower backs tolerate being bent like that for hours on end, day after day.

I stretch my lower back infrequently, briefly, and with caution.  I can put my palms on the floor but you won't find me hanging out in that position, and you won't find me in a yoga class.   I avoid regular practice of activities like rowing, paddling a canoe or kayak, and bicycling.

The lesson I've learned for myself:  I can't tolerate my back being loose, but I can tolerate it being a little tight - it's not always the most comfortable thing, but it's the side on which I must err if I wish to continue being healthy and avoiding back surgery.

I hope the "war story" is helpful to you.

-S-
 
Thanks Pavel, I'll investigate Deadlift Dynamite.  I'll find it hard to not kayak, as like Jeff has said (like your post Jeff) there's something about battling the elements kayaking.  More than just physical.  Plus, where I kayak is too rough too often to consistently paddleboard.  I like your suggestion nevertheless, as paddleboarding would be fun and easier on the back.

Yet I must admit, I've never had issues with my back - tight perhaps, but healthy.  Posture maybe dodgy, and hip mobility lacking and asymmetric.  Yet considering I used to lift heavy deads, then in the past year I've kayaked 6days a week (1hr), past 4 months added deads easy strength style once per week, light deads 2 days a week, goblets 2 days, kettlebell swings 4 days (app 200 reps), BWeight good mornings 3x5 for 5 days a week (since stopped due to tight hammy) - my lower back has been on the job!
 
Hi Steve,

Interesting post, thanks.  Some good information.  When I was lifting 5x5 I would ride my bike 2 times a week, more flat out for a bit more than an hour, rather than endurance, and guess I never had the problem of being bent over for hours.  Yet I watch the cyclists now and see their posture while riding and think that mustn't be good.

I'm fortunate too that I walk heaps, which maybe has inadvertently helped me from what you're saying.

 

 
 
I should just add, in case my title was misleading - my simple question is how to deload when training Easy Strength.  I just mentioned the kayaking and my lifting to explain why I was going Easy-Strength style, and that I found it remarkable I haven't really deloaded.  Probably me adjusting to a new program more than not?
 
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