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Old Forum Deadlift- improvement without progression?

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Physical Culture

Physical Culture

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Quick question.  My goals right now do not place a high priority on the deadlift.  I'm working toward 80 reps with 2x20k in the long cycle.  My son is 13, and has an interest in deadlifting.  He weighs 130, and pulled 160 with relative ease, so he wants to compete in a powerlifting meet and work up a good deadlift.  I've got him on a PTTP progression that may get him over 200 by the meet on November 9.  He's progressing well.

He wants me to lift with him in the meet (deadlift only at a push/pull meet).  I'm not really into it right now, and don't want to sideline other goals.  However, I'm willing to do it to support him.  I have not tested my max in quite  a while, but can pull an easy 315 any time I choose to without having to ramp up to it, and without any feeling of fatigue and soreness afterward. I could probably pull 315 for a triple, though I have not tested it.

Rather than radically change my programming, I'm thinking of adding an easy 315 for 4-5 singles a day, 4-5 days a week, for the next 6 weeks.  This is not light enough to really be called greasing the groove- more like Justa's singles program, but I don't really want to add weight.  My long cycle progression will get harder as I go, so I don't want to do the same with the bar.

If I do this, I'll basically make the bar a fixed-weight implement, like a kettlebell, and lift the same weight frequently, but with low volume, over a six week period.  Is it reasonable to think that in a big lift like the deadlift, I can get much stronger with this approach?  Has anyone tried this approach with the deadlift?

It seems that the more often I pull 315, the easier it will get to pull 315, and the easier that is, the easier it will be to pull heavier weights as well.
 
When I do a heavy squat cycle, I often put deadlifts on a maintenance plan to focus on the squats.

When I cycle back to a heavier round of deadlifts, they always jump up quickly. Don't know if it's the recovery allowed by easing off for a while, the strength gained in my legs/lower back from heavy squats, or a combination of it all. But it works.

For example: the last time I eased off, I pulled 315 for 5 or 6 singles once per week (Max was 385 at the time). More of a tonic effect than anything. Switched back to deadlifting a couple weeks before a PL meet and pulled 405 at the meet.

Those easy singles are like putting money in the bank. After a while, all the little deposits add up and you can pull out a big sum.

 
 
Thanks, Chris.  Makes sense.  I was pleasantly surprised some time back, when I had not deadlifted in almost six months.  I pulled 300 on  a whim one day, which went up fast and easy, after no heavy barbell work for half a year.  I'd been doing long cycle with 2 24k bells for reps in the 10-20 range, and the double clean was my only pulling work for months.  Lots of 106 pound cleans made that deadlift easy.  I'm stronger now, and hoping that lots (comparatively speaking) of moderately easy pulls will get me a bigger pull on the platform.

I'm not excited about deadlifting right now, but I know when I get to the meet, I'll want a good number.
 
Steve, I think it is a mistake to pursue such radically different goals.  Also, your son is too young to compete in PL.  Train—yes, compete-I would wait several years.  I see many young boys and girls on the platform—they give it their hearts, but their spines bend like a noodle.  Not good.  

JMO.
 
Steve, if you end up at the meet, pull 315 for your first attempt and be done - no need to do more.  If you feel like doing more, be conservative - have them throw another 10 or 20 lbs. on the bar, take the attempt and see how it feels.  It's not your main thing, so there is _no_ reason to push it or risk injury.

If your son does end up pulling in a meet, be very conservative.  Typically, an adult might open with a weight he's tripled in training, so for your son, plan his attempts as 8RM, 5RM, and 3RM - you don't want him pulling more than that.   If he's serious about competing, you need to make sure he's very, very, very well supervised in his training.  As Pavel says, you go to some federations' meets and the kids lifting have great spirit but most have awful form, and when you see someone and comment, "That's an injury waiting to happen" that is, in fact, what usually does, and the kid will be out of lifting and likely out of training altogether - and that would be a shame.

Best of luck with it all.

-S-
 
Thanks for the good advice, all.  Steve, this makes sense about my lifting.  I supervise Isaac's training, and his technique is pretty good.  Today he did 140 for 5,3,2 reps, smooth and easy.  He hits a mini-peak tomorrow, then drops back to 115 and starts again.   I thought I'd open him at 135 (which is about his bodyweight), and see how he does, and call his numbers from there.  I want him to be proud of his performance, but I don't want him taking it to the limit.

He's a black belt in Taekwondo, so he has good body awareness.  He responds well to my cues about his posture.  Of course, this is mitigated by being a clumsy 13 year old....
 
Steve M., your son may have a good posture in submax DLs.  In heavy lifts, especially in competition, it is not likely to last.  You need a lot of reps under your belt to groove it.   
 
Reflection on Pavel and Steve F.'s advice.  I've been deadlifting 315 for 5 singles a day since Tuesday.  Pavel said it was a mistake, since my focus is long cycle.  Pavel, as usual, was right- Yesterday I heard myself saying to my wife- "I don't know why I'm so tired and stiff today.  I slept great last night, but I just feel run down and sore."  Friday I did 80 reps (total)  long cycle with 2x20k, then the deadlifts.  Too much, too different, too soon.  Each rep was not that hard, but it all adds up.

I think the first time around, I missed the point of Steve's advice.  I don't need to train for a 315 pull on the platform- I can already pull 315 or a little more any time I want, and that will do if I just want to lift with my son to support him in his meet.  I can just keep training long cycle, running, and bodyweight stuff, and then a few light deads before the meet.

Thanks for the good advice!
 
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