Barbell Deadlift Plateau

[deadliftenthusiast]

I am posting because I am currently in a rut with my deadlift and bench progress. Had a long term goal of hitting 600 on deads and 315 on bench. I am stuck at 585 and 300 respectively. I hired a coach to write me a program, but it ended up leading to regression in both lifts. I work a very inconsistent job and I need a workout that I could complete either 5 days in a row or once a week. I want to incorporate some of Pavel's programming into my training, but I do not know if a program like PTTP will work when I am training on such an odd schudele. I have come up with the below workout, but I would like some advice on what weights I should start with and how I will know when to increase weight on the bar.

Deadlift, 4x2
Bench, 4x2
KB swings, 3x10
Pullups, 10x1
*My current plan is complete this workout as many times as possible in a week. Depending on my work schuedele I could complete this workout 1-5 times a week.
*My idea for a progression is to add 5 lbs to the lifts or add an extra pullup in when the workout is extremely easy.
*I also do a long hold of COC 1-1.5 after every set of deadlifts and bench.

I have never done a step progression program like this. I am a little nervous that I am either going to undershoot it or overshoot it. Is there any objective way y'all have about how many sessions I should do before I add weight? Do y'all think that this program will be sustainable? What weights do y'all think I should start with?

Any help would be appreciated.

Hopefully 600 lbs is coming soon

 

[jayjo]

Andy Bolton's "Deadlift Dynamite" book outlines his Periodization program. That worked for me. Its basically adding 5 or 10 lbs. each week. Then after a month or so, back off in weight a lot and start over. Then after another month or so, back off in weight again, but start over a little heavier than the last time. Continue this forever. Its very incremental and steady.

 

[Luis T. Gonzalez]

Pavel's programming into my training

To quote Dan John, "Easy strength works so well for athletes that they usually don't believe it will work for someone as advanced as I am."

 

[Mark Limbaga]

If you can upload a vid of your deads, maybe we can find something you can still do better.. then we go from there

 

[BJJGator]

Your deadlifts are already higher than my PR, so maybe I'm not the best to give advice, but it is the internet so.....I've had a lot of success with the standard Wendler 531 progression. When I would hit those plateaus, the advice is usually back off your training maxes by 10%, then build back up again. I also think that you can set the training blocks up to match your schedule. Something to consider anyway. Good luck, a 585 deadlift is super impressive itself!

 

[Hung]

For me, dl benefits from submax work plus focusing more on assistance exercises/squat. Then run a short peaking cycle for deadlift (like a few weeks hitting single with higher rpe)

 

[Hung]

For me, dl benefits from submax work plus focusing more on assistance exercises/squat. Then run a short peaking cycle for deadlift (like a few weeks hitting single with higher rpe)

But my dl is far from you (500 vs 585) so take my advice as a grain of salt.

 

[Hung]

Also, based on your experience, what do you think is lacking in your training? Not enough practice with the lift? Or not enough exposure to heavy-ish weight? Or there is a weak muscle/movement pattern that failed first when the weight get heavier?
What did you experience with that coach? How is the program/his approach to training (linear/block/conjugate)? What you like and dislike from that? Could you modified the program/approach to suit you?

 

[deadliftenthusiast]

If you can upload a vid of your deads, maybe we can find something you can still do better.. then we go from there

Hello,

Thanks for the reply. Shown above is a set of 500 for 3 I completed recently. Sorry for the poor quality.


EDIT @deadliftenthusiast, I (forum admin) removed your links because they were links to your personal email, and although they will work for you, they won't work for anyone else and, when I clicked on them, I got weird error messages that I don't want anyone else to experience.

LINKS REMOVED.

 

[deadliftenthusiast]

Also, based on your experience, what do you think is lacking in your training? Not enough practice with the lift? Or not enough exposure to heavy-ish weight? Or there is a weak muscle/movement pattern that failed first when the weight get heavier?
What did you experience with that coach? How is the program/his approach to training (linear/block/conjugate)? What you like and dislike from that? Could you modified the program/approach to suit you?

Hello,

Thank you for the response. The program that was written for me was a 12 week block. It was 4 days a week focusing on one of the main lifts each time(squat, bench, press, deads). It also had plenty of accessory work after each main lift. The biggest issue I found is that I was starting to fail some of the prescribed sets and the accessory work was taking it out of me. I want to just focus on deads and bench press for the time being. I get a lot out of practicing the movement frequently and I think that is why my deadlift and bench fell off so hard on this program. I have read the article Daily Dose Deadlift Plan by Derek Miller and I am also thinking about giving that a shot because the workout does not take long at all, but I am unsure of what to do with my bench press if I ran though that. Any advice on programming would be appreciated. I have linked a video of one of my pulls in a seperate post.

Thanks

 

[Luis T. Gonzalez]

Any advice on programming would be appreciated.

I would highly recommend Plan Strong Custom Plans. Check out the "Plan Strong Results" section on the page and you will see many people take their lifts to a new level in a relatively short time. I have used Plan Strong several times and it works amazingly. The majority of the work prescribed is in the 65-80% range but the Russian system of waving the load does something incredible. There is no need for accessory movements and you could take advantage of the time-saving method of performing a set of bench followed by a set of deadlift to cut down on time.

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[Hung]

Hello,

Thank you for the response. The program that was written for me was a 12 week block. It was 4 days a week focusing on one of the main lifts each time(squat, bench, press, deads). It also had plenty of accessory work after each main lift. The biggest issue I found is that I was starting to fail some of the prescribed sets and the accessory work was taking it out of me. I want to just focus on deads and bench press for the time being. I get a lot out of practicing the movement frequently and I think that is why my deadlift and bench fell off so hard on this program. I have read the article Daily Dose Deadlift Plan by Derek Miller and I am also thinking about giving that a shot because the workout does not take long at all, but I am unsuree of what to do with my bench press if I ran though that. Any advice on programming would be appreciated. I have linked a video of one of my pulls in a seperate post.

Thanks

What's your most successful periods before have his/her coaching? Could you write a training week based on that period? With modification necessary of course.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I am stuck at 585 and 300

Stuck

Impressiver number to be suck at.

I hired a coach to write me a program, but it ended up leading to regression in both lifts.

Expert Coaches

I don't have enought finger or toes to count all the Expert Coaches.

The 80/20 Rule applies in that 20% are knowledgeable and the remaining 80% are limited.

The issue is figuring out which one you are talking to.

I have come up with the below workout,

More Information

There isn't enough information on this to provide any feedback.

Your weight progression doesn't make a lot of sense.

I have never done a step progression program like this.

Andy Bolton's "Deadlift Dynamite" book outlines his Periodization program.

Periodization Training

This is one of the underling methods used to maintain long term progress.

It is based on The General Adaptation Syndrome.

Ironcially, most individual don't understrand it or employ it.

Its basically adding 5 or 10 lbs. each week.

Not A Fan

The weight jumps are not enough. Pavel went into that in one of his video presentation on how to optimize Strength./

With that said, weight jump of this nature are going to be more effective for a Novice Liter, rather than Intermediate or Advance one.

Then after a month or so, back off in weight a lot and start over. Then after another month or so, back off in weight again, but start over a little heavier than the last time. Continue this forever. Its very incremental and steady.

This is Periodation Training!!!

But my dl is far from you (500 vs 585) so take my advice as a grain of salt.

Misconcept

This one misconception that many individual adhear to,

The misconception that a stronger individual know more.

In reality, great athlete make poor coaches. The have natural ability. They are unable to convey it because they can just do it.

Do y'all think that this program will be sustainable?

No

What weights do y'all think I should start with?

Not Enough Information

There isn't enough information to determine that.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

The program that was written for me was a 12 week block. It also had plenty of accessory work after each main lift. The biggest issue I found is that I was starting to fail some of the prescribed sets and the accessory work was taking it out of me.

12 Week Block

Based on your Training Age (how long your have been training), a 12 week block appears to be too long.

More Advance Lifters, such as you, Adapt Quickly.

Once Adaption occurs progress stop. Continuing past that point, strength regresses take place; your lift go down. OverReaching take place leading to OverTraining.

For Advance Lifters short Periodization Training Cyles are more effective: arond 3-4 weeks.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

The majority of the work prescribed is in the 65-80% range

Heavier Load

Maximum Strength gains occur with load of 85% plus of 1 Repetion Max. This percentage needs to incorporated into the program at some point. Traditionally in the last part of a Periodization Training Cycle, the load need to be pushed to failure or near to it.

There is no need for accessory movements

Accessory Movements

They are an intergal part in Strength and Hypertrophy Training; overcoming Sticking Points.

Auxilary Movements

Increasing Maximum Strength is optimize by performing Auxiliary Movement that are similar in nature to a lift, like the Deadlift and Bench Press.

That because the Auxliary Movement can be push to failure. Technique isn't altered with the main lifts.

Individual who push the main lift, like a Deadlift or Bench Press to failure, ensure poor technique is developed. Muscle Fatique alters Techinique for the worse. The muscle firing sequence changes and the Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber are no longer being inervated nor developed.

Technique Development

1) Perform the lift first in training or on separate day.

2) Work up to single reps with 85% or higher.

3) Once Technique is altered in the lift, Stop. Continuing reinforces incorret Technique.

 

[Luis T. Gonzalez]

Accessory Movements

They are an intergal part in Strength and Hypertrophy Training; overcoming Sticking Points

I agree with that point with some plans. With Plan Strong custom plans the volume is very high so accessory movements are not recommended other than some easy conditioning like timeless swings, a few get ups to warm up etc. To me, Plan Strong makes a lot of sense, the lifts above 80% are saved for the end of the cycle and deliver more results from anything I have ever done before.

 

[deadliftenthusiast]

He

What's your most successful periods before have his/her coaching? Could you write a training week based on that period? With modification necessary of course

My most successful training period(post noobie gains) was a modified version of easy strength. My plan was doing 3*3 of deadlift and bench and I would repeat the same workout as many times as I could throughout the week and add weight when the previous weight became extremely easy. I would also throw in pause deadlifts and close grip bench sometimes. This got my lifts from 250 to 300 on the bench and 500 to 585 on the deadlift over the course of a year. After doing more research I am starting a cycle of Daily Dose Deadlifts. I have taken my one rep max down by 5 percent. I am running this cycle for both bench and deadlift. Another question, besides completing the coaching seminar, is there any advice you would give me about becoming a strong first coach?

Thanks

 

[Hung]

Another question, besides completing the coaching seminar, is there any advice you would give me about becoming a strong first coach?

I think it can be a whole thread by its own

 

[John K]

Another question, besides completing the coaching seminar, is there any advice you would give me about becoming a strong first coach?

Train for a while. Coach people for a while. I learned more by those two than I did from a certification. Not that the certification isn't good, but I've learned more by working with people and lifting myself.

 

[deadliftenthusiast]

I think it can be a whole thread by its own

Fair enough.