Old Forum Deadlift question

[Deleted member 316]

I was thinking about all the different variations of deadlifts one could use and wondered, what weight should someone master before switching to another style? I know double bodyweight is respected in the standard style, but is bodyweight or bodyweight and a half a good benchmark before switching?

 

[Journeyman]

1. Why switch entirely if something is working for you?

2. Why not use several at once? Using one variant as an over-warmup, or backoff, or assistance exercise for another one can work very well.

3. I think that Dave Dellanave has recommended reaching at least 1.5x bodyweight with 'textbook' form--that is, conventional stance with an arched back and low hips--before moving on to anything else, and I think that's a good standard.

4. If you're built to pull, you may get more out of different deadlift variants than out of other assistance exercises (GM, hyperextension, squat variants, etc.)

5. Simple answer, if you want to cycle different forms of DL, is 'when progress stops'. Look at the original Power to the People: you could do a cycle of conventional, then sumo, then RDL, then back to conventional, etc. One cycle can build on the next and fix weaknesses you've noticed were holding you back.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Journeyman]

Regarding #2, there was something in PTTP pro about that; and Jeff Steinberg wrote a bit about it on the dragondoor forum if you search it (I believe he ran a linear cycle of hack lifts but followed up with his preferred stance, sumo, to keep the groove).

I've used different variants from time to time:  http://affectinggravity.blogspot.com/2013/08/creating-perfect-training-routine-part.html one of my favorite ways to train 'same but different' and incorporate some variety to a minimalistic routine.

 

[Stefan]

Hello Hunter Jarvis,

There are many, many ways to program the deadlift so your question can't really be answered in any other way than it would depend on the system. I use two variations at once and switch every 8 weeks. If you're on a different system you'll do something else.

Good luck.

 

[Pavel]

Hunter, you are focusing on unimportant details.  Switching is done to improve one's main style, not just to collect styles.

 

[Steve Freides]

Hunter, once you know how to properly deadlift, a 1.5 x bodyweight deadlift, assuming you are are a healthy, adult male without health or exercise restrictions, will feel more or less like picking up a bag of groceries.  If it doesn't, you need to learn how to deadlift.

At the SFL (StrongFirst barbell instructor certification), the requirement is a single with 2 x bodyweight, and Pavel made it clear to us that the standards were to be thought of as meaning you weren't weak, not that you were actually strong.  I paraphrase but you get the idea, I hope.

All other things being equal, try deadlifting either conventional or narrow sumo and follow a single, proven program until it no longer yields progress for you, cycling the weights as you go.  Expect this to take anywhere from a few months to perhaps a year or two.

As but one person's example, I keep 1.5 x bodyweight on my deadlift bar, never less, and that is where I start all my cycles, start my warmups, etc.  Nothing less than that accomplishes anything for me, and I actually find my form gets worse, not better, if I deadlift any less than 1.5 x bodyweight.

-S-

 

[Pavel]

" 1.5 x bodyweight deadlift will feel more or less like picking up a bag of groceries."

Steve,  well said.

 

[Steve Freides]

Thank you, Pavel.  The choice of words is my wife's; I ask her for feedback on my DL from time to time and she says that's what it looks like when I pick up the bar at 1.5 x bodyweight.

-S-

 

[Deleted member 316]

So basically just pull the damn weight and stop thinking. Work one until it doesnt work and then switch to same but different.

 

[Steve Freides]

No, Hunter, don't just pull the damn weight and stop thinking - start thinking about what you need to in order to pull the damn weight and have it feel light at 1.5 x bodyweight.

As to choosing a program, I can only guess but I assume you're a relative beginner at the deadlift and, if that's the case, your best bet will always be to stick with a tried-and-true program for several cycles because you will likely progress each time through.

I don't know if Pavel will agree, but in my mind, the original PTTP program is the original "easy strength" routine.   You could do a lot worse than to read the book from cover to cover and train exactly as it suggests.

-S-

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Hunter, you have been given a ton of gems by Steve and the Chief. All I can say is pick out one variation and program, do it consistently. There is really nothing magical, just hard and consistent work.

 

To quote Master SFG Mark Reifkind "avoid random acts of variety"

 

[ericreichelt81]

Here's how I decide, and it takes about twenty minutes while the baby sleeps. Load 135 pull 3/3 conv and whatever sumo feels good. Just leaning it so whatever really. Feel kinda silly really, but it stays narrow. 185 3/3,225,275,315,335, all 3/3. I go by feel on what's moving better then 360,390,410 and just keep going until I feel I'm grinding. I just alternate nonstop for sets of 3. But you could use msny variations here and it's an ok idea. Heres the thing, if you pulling 300 or whatever makes you feel you've mastered that weight then its all good. But if mastering 300 moves like groceries, expect more.