Kettlebell Going from Simple to Sinister - any advice you can share?

[cmls]

Hi guys,

First time poster here hoping to get some advice. About 3 weeks ago, I achieved the timed Simple standard and have now sets my sights on achieving Sinister. I'm a big fan of the minimalistic training, and was planning to keep going ahead with the step progression outlined in the book to hit that goal. I know that the prescribed number of practice sessions a week is a maximum of 4, but I was wondering if there was something anyone can recommend that can work well along side S&S if my goal is to still achieve Sinister? (Maybe lower the number of S&S days and add something else?) I am wary of adding too much, as I did that early on while doing S&S and definitely stalled my own progression to Simple, so I am seeking the advice of those with more knowledge than me. This protocol/kettlebells has improved my physical fitness markedly and has helped me perform much better in the other spots I do that I would like to get the maximum I can out of it.

@Pavel Macek , from my Googling, someone posted on here that you may have a compressed verion of the ROP that works well in conjunction with the S&S workouts when going from Simple to Sinister...any chance you would be able to shed some light?

Thank you in advanced to anyone who can share any advice!

 

[Ryan T]

Hi guys,

First time poster here hoping to get some advice. About 3 weeks ago, I achieved the timed Simple standard and have now sets my sights on achieving Sinister. I'm a big fan of the minimalistic training, and was planning to keep going ahead with the step progression outlined in the book to hit that goal. I know that the prescribed number of practice sessions a week is a maximum of 4, but I was wondering if there was something anyone can recommend that can work well along side S&S if my goal is to still achieve Sinister? (Maybe lower the number of S&S days and add something else?) I am wary of adding too much, as I did that early on while doing S&S and definitely stalled my own progression to Simple, so I am seeking the advice of those with more knowledge than me. This protocol/kettlebells has improved my physical fitness markedly and has helped me perform much better in the other spots I do that I would like to get the maximum I can out of it.

@Pavel Macek , from my Googling, someone posted on here that you may have a compressed verion of the ROP that works well in conjunction with the S&S workouts when going from Simple to Sinister...any chance you would be able to shed some light?

Thank you in advanced to anyone who can share any advice!

Congratulations on Simple!

A couple questions for you to reflect on…
1. Was Simple an achievement or do you “own” Simple, as in could you do tomorrow or the next day if you wanted to?
2. What will you gain (or are hoping to gain) if you bolt on additional things to your practice toward Sinister? Do you feel like you have deficiencies or chinks in the armor that you need to address or are you craving some variety?

Think about the concept of appetite vs hunger. Appetite, you crave certain things or want to eat certain things, not out of necessity. Hunger, your body is telling you that you need food or perhaps specific food to fuel it properly.

A few ideas…
1. Change what you are doing. Example: Shift to Q&D (6 week block) or, perhaps run a cycle of ROP (13 week block). Or take a shorter period and run something like Dry Fighting Weight
2. If you want to keep it in the same vein as what you are doing, do The Simply Sinister Training Plan. I have my kettlebell class do this one on a regular basis. It’s great.
3. If you do tack something else on, do it at the end of the session before your stretches. Chin ups or pull ups would be a nice compliment.

 

[cmls]

Congratulations on Simple!

A couple questions for you to reflect on…
1. Was Simple an achievement or do you “own” Simple, as in could you do tomorrow or the next day if you wanted to?
2. What will you gain (or are hoping to gain) if you bolt on additional things to your practice toward Sinister? Do you feel like you have deficiencies or chinks in the armor that you need to address or are you craving some variety?

Think about the concept of appetite vs hunger. Appetite, you crave certain things or want to eat certain things, not out of necessity. Hunger, your body is telling you that you need food or perhaps specific food to fuel it properly.

A few ideas…
1. Change what you are doing. Example: Shift to Q&D (6 week block) or, perhaps run a cycle of ROP (13 week block). Or take a shorter period and run something like Dry Fighting Weight
2. If you want to keep it in the same vein as what you are doing, do The Simply Sinister Training Plan. I have my kettlebell class do this one on a regular basis. It’s great.
3. If you do tack something else on, do it at the end of the session before your stretches. Chin ups or pull ups would be a nice compliment.

Hi @Ryan T ! Thanks for the reply.

To be completely honest, I don't think i "own" Simple. Timeless Simple yes, but timed Simple, I wasn't gasping for air or doing trash reps, but I know I was in that mode where I was pushing myself. That question sort of makes me realize what the next immediate goal I should focus on should be, and makes my original post sound silly right now haha.

What i was hoping to gain would be to improve my endurance + strength even more. Being able to increase my physical work capacity by just working with the kettlebells I have would be amazing (I'm time 2 small kids + work, space poor because we live in an apartment). I don't think I'm after variety as I'm happy enough that goblet squats + swings + getups don't take too much of my time. The nearly every day practice of the same thing saved a lot of brain power too.

Thank you for the suggestions, I'll read up on them and probably come back here to ask more questions.

Do you think adding on a 5th day of S&S but with a lighter bell would do anything positive? Just to both keep solidifying the swing/getup technique but also get the heart rate up and build more 'easy cardio'? Or is it at that point of diminishing returns where it's not really going to do anything?

 

[Ryan T]

Hi @Ryan T ! Thanks for the reply.

To be completely honest, I don't think i "own" Simple. Timeless Simple yes, but timed Simple, I wasn't gasping for air or doing trash reps, but I know I was in that mode where I was pushing myself. That question sort of makes me realize what the next immediate goal I should focus on should be, and makes my original post sound silly right now haha.

What i was hoping to gain would be to improve my endurance + strength even more. Being able to increase my physical work capacity by just working with the kettlebells I have would be amazing (I'm time 2 small kids + work, space poor because we live in an apartment). I don't think I'm after variety as I'm happy enough that goblet squats + swings + getups don't take too much of my time. The nearly every day practice of the same thing saved a lot of brain power too.

Thank you for the suggestions, I'll read up on them and probably come back here to ask more questions.

Do you think adding on a 5th day of S&S but with a lighter bell would do anything positive? Just to both keep solidifying the swing/getup technique but also get the heart rate up and build more 'easy cardio'? Or is it at that point of diminishing returns where it's not really going to do anything?

Good reflections here. Based on what you've said, I think you might be well suited to continue on your current path, perhaps swap out one of the training days with The Simply Sinister Training plan for a bit of a different stimulus but still practicing the same movements.

EDIT: Also make sure to get consistent easy aerobic work for increased recovery on the off days

 

[Dayz]

I think these two articles could be what you're after, one by Pavel Tsatsouline and one by Pavel Macek:

From Simple to Sinister: Waving Volume on S&S | StrongFirst

The "From Simple to Sinister" program takes the original Simple & Sinister and applies proven Soviet techniques of waving volume. Here's how to do it.

www.strongfirst.com

Solid: In-Between Simple & Sinister | StrongFirst

Thoughts, tips, and tricks from my training through the space in-between Simple and Sinister. Aspects of S&S are often overlooked that are key to progress.

www.strongfirst.com

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Excellent advice given .

Another aspect is have seasons of general strength work(i.e. Easy strength, strength aerobics) to build a wide strength base..

For some, the timed standard for each bell is a form of specialization

 

[Matthieu]

Waving the load (the article written by Pavel) works very (very) well. I applied the article with a little less volume (1600 swings and/or 160 tgu per month instead of 2000/200).

I have not achieved sinister (and don't know if I will be able to achieve Timed sinister but it allowed me to unlock the tgu with 48 kg (my bodyweigth is 68-70 kg) so I'm working with 40-48 kg.

I would be very careful about adding exercises because some sessions have a very high volume (200 swings or 20 tgu). When I apply "waving the load" I just practiced s&s. The rest of the time, for me, the daily dose press is very effective and works well with s&s (you can take a look here : one arm press)

I hope that will help you,
Matthieu