Hi, I have a student working on a swing program from Geoff's Kettlebell Express, working up to 20 sets of 20 reps with a 16kg. She has done 20 sets of 10, can do 13 reps but not really getting beyond 15 sets at that rep level with good form. She's taking a week off for a trip late May which will probably be good, but in the meantime I'm considering: (1) stick with it, continue at current level of 13 reps and add a set when able til get to 20 before adding a rep (2) continue at current set level but keep adding reps, (3) taking a week off now and then resuming at current level, (4) as I'm about to teach her one arm swings anyway, replacing this program for one with one-arm swings with 12kg, or alternating this and a one-arm swing program, perhaps on ABA BAB cycle. Any thoughts on best approach or other suggestions are appreciated. Thanks
Old Forum Hitting wall on Geoff's swing program
- Thread starter Michael Perry
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Steve W.
Level 8 Valued Member
Michael,
Is this the "Swing Season" program (the first one in the book)?
I think most likely the problem is using too heavy a bell.
This kind of program is all about building momentum. The early sessions should be so easy that you worry you started too light. It's almost better to START at a point where the trainee could ALREADY probably do the final session in the program with an all out effort. This way, by the time you actually get to that final session, it will be easy (or at least relatively comfortable).
That's where the progress comes -- not going from a max of 8 to a max of 21 (the program I'm thinking of in the book actually goes up to 21), but being able to do something comfortably that you would have had to kill yourself to accomplish at the beginning.
If you start AT the wall, you can't build momentum to bust through the wall. And even better is to keep the wall moving backward without ever having to hit it.
Hope this helps.
Is this the "Swing Season" program (the first one in the book)?
I think most likely the problem is using too heavy a bell.
This kind of program is all about building momentum. The early sessions should be so easy that you worry you started too light. It's almost better to START at a point where the trainee could ALREADY probably do the final session in the program with an all out effort. This way, by the time you actually get to that final session, it will be easy (or at least relatively comfortable).
That's where the progress comes -- not going from a max of 8 to a max of 21 (the program I'm thinking of in the book actually goes up to 21), but being able to do something comfortably that you would have had to kill yourself to accomplish at the beginning.
If you start AT the wall, you can't build momentum to bust through the wall. And even better is to keep the wall moving backward without ever having to hit it.
Hope this helps.
Michal Vratny
Level 1 Valued Member
She started with a bell that's too heavy to handle, simple as that. I'd suggest switching to a lighter bell and continue the program as outlined.
Michael P,
Not sure what to tell you that the others haven't already said. Perhaps if you can provide more information about your student I could help more - the program (sounds like "Swing Season"), the bell size in relation to her strength levels, how long she's been training with KBs, etc.
20 sets of 10, is only 3 workouts into the program, so she hasn't made it far enough to stall out. I'm leaning toward Michal's diagnosis - her KB is too heavy. Remember, use a medium-sized KB. Most women start off with a 12kg.
Hope that helps.
Not sure what to tell you that the others haven't already said. Perhaps if you can provide more information about your student I could help more - the program (sounds like "Swing Season"), the bell size in relation to her strength levels, how long she's been training with KBs, etc.
20 sets of 10, is only 3 workouts into the program, so she hasn't made it far enough to stall out. I'm leaning toward Michal's diagnosis - her KB is too heavy. Remember, use a medium-sized KB. Most women start off with a 12kg.
Hope that helps.
Thanks all for the comments. Geoff and Steve, yes, this is the program (as reprinted in the instructor manual).
Geoff, she's 47, has been doing pilates pretty religiously for about a year, had done kettlebells before but off and on. She had started with a 12 and was swinging it just fine before moving up to the 16 a few weeks before starting this program. Continuing to do some pilates and some other bodyweight training, but the swing program is the core. Usually does the body weight right after swings. Primary near term goal is weight loss.
And, I misstated the numbers. She has done 20 sets of 13, stopped for a week or two, and tried to pick back up at 20 sets of 12, and got through, but with difficulty. She reduced the set count to 15 and can get to 15 sets of 13; today did so for the second time. Feeling some grip fatigue on the last few sets as well as general fatigue, but form remains good.
Appreciating that the bell may be too heavy to get to 21 reps at top of the minute for 20, she feels comfortable holding at 15 sets and increasing reps there. The good news is the sets are all strong and consistent, just getting grip fatigue at that point on the last few reps of the last few sets. She knows to stop before the form goes. Has a neck condition that has caused discomfort in the past (unrelated to kettlebells and she's cleared to use them) so is careful about this.
Thanks again for taking the time to comment.
Geoff, she's 47, has been doing pilates pretty religiously for about a year, had done kettlebells before but off and on. She had started with a 12 and was swinging it just fine before moving up to the 16 a few weeks before starting this program. Continuing to do some pilates and some other bodyweight training, but the swing program is the core. Usually does the body weight right after swings. Primary near term goal is weight loss.
And, I misstated the numbers. She has done 20 sets of 13, stopped for a week or two, and tried to pick back up at 20 sets of 12, and got through, but with difficulty. She reduced the set count to 15 and can get to 15 sets of 13; today did so for the second time. Feeling some grip fatigue on the last few sets as well as general fatigue, but form remains good.
Appreciating that the bell may be too heavy to get to 21 reps at top of the minute for 20, she feels comfortable holding at 15 sets and increasing reps there. The good news is the sets are all strong and consistent, just getting grip fatigue at that point on the last few reps of the last few sets. She knows to stop before the form goes. Has a neck condition that has caused discomfort in the past (unrelated to kettlebells and she's cleared to use them) so is careful about this.
Thanks again for taking the time to comment.
What I have learned is that go lighter when in doubt.. you can always restart with a heavier bell later on if you are breezing thru the program
Michael P -
"She had started with a 12 and was swinging it just fine before moving up to the 16 a few weeks before starting this program."
There's the mistake.
Start back at the 12kg and do the whole program in it's entirety.
Why?
"She has done 20 sets of 13, stopped for a week or two, and tried to pick back up at 20 sets of 12, and got through, but with difficulty. "
12 reps is only 5 workouts into the program. She still has 21 workouts to go if you're actually going to do THE Program.
The point is to be able to go the whole 20 minutes and slowly build up the volume from there. Great way to build work capacity along with helping her with her goal of losing weight. (Work capacity = ability to do and recover from work. Weight loss = more work = more calories burned. Higher work capacity, greater potential caloric expenditure.)
Hope that helps.
"She had started with a 12 and was swinging it just fine before moving up to the 16 a few weeks before starting this program."
There's the mistake.
Start back at the 12kg and do the whole program in it's entirety.
Why?
"She has done 20 sets of 13, stopped for a week or two, and tried to pick back up at 20 sets of 12, and got through, but with difficulty. "
12 reps is only 5 workouts into the program. She still has 21 workouts to go if you're actually going to do THE Program.
The point is to be able to go the whole 20 minutes and slowly build up the volume from there. Great way to build work capacity along with helping her with her goal of losing weight. (Work capacity = ability to do and recover from work. Weight loss = more work = more calories burned. Higher work capacity, greater potential caloric expenditure.)
Hope that helps.
Geoff, it does, thank you. Btw hope to see you at OS workshop in Dallas next weekend
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