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Other/Mixed Hypertrophy

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
Anders

Anders

Level 6 Valued Member
I was wondering what people's view and practice around hypertrophy training is.

Do you hope to achieve a sufficiently amount of it just by practicing strength training regularly ?
Do you practice it some months of the year, or some weeks of the year ?
Or do you try to do it once or twice pr week, while simultaneously training endurance and strength ?

What kind of mythology do you follow ?

My view is that Strong First has not really published a specific book about it. They have some thoughts about it where they say that hypertrophy ought to be achieved simultaneously as you gain strength so that you are as strong as you look. And isolations movements are almost forbidden. The only product they seem to have released about this topic seem to be Built Strong which is pricey, but I am sure very good.

Any thoughts on this ?

Anders
 
Personally, hypertrophy is maybe fourth on my priority list. I'm not trying to avoid it or anything but I figure, if I can accomplish everything else on the list, the hypertrophy should be good enough for my needs.
 
Hypertrophy is my main goal, not in a bodybuilding sense but in that I’ve always wanted to just look/feel like a brick house. I love physiques like Oberst, Fedor, etc.

I have been running Giant exclusively to that effect for awhile. As I was running it the first time I saw @John Grahill talking about running it with 36s and I knew that if I could get to 36s with it my physique would be closer to my goals.

It might not be strongfirst, but it’s strongfirst adjacent/allied and a great hypertrophy program IMO. C&P with the density traininghave made my traps absolutely explode, far larger than when I used to deadlift/Olympic lift. Since running it my suit jacket size has gone from 48 to almost 52, biceps from 15.5” to 17.25” while my waist has remained the same.
 
Anders said:
What kind of mythology do you follow ?
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I'm in the camp that strength gains without some hypertrophy gains are short lived. Long term you really need both. Hypertrophy work feeds strength and strength feeds hypertrophy in a synergistic gains feedback loop.

I've had great results the past year doing 5/3/1 with "hypertrophy" accessories in the 8-15 rep range for 3-6 sets. (yes, I know rep ranges aren't really in vogue, but I can recover a lot better from a hard 15/5 than I can a hard 3/5.) With strongman specific work 1-2 times a week.

The physique I'm getting from this is more in the vein of Big Z rather than CBUM. So brick-s***-house-esque. Heavy carries don't lend themselves to a V shaped torso lol. My floor presses are closer to a full ROM bench than a partial press now.
 
Pavel has published a book titled Beyond Body Building which has a good deal in it for muscle building. Built Strong by Fabio Zonin has muscle-building principles. Low reps still build muscle just not as fast as higher reps. Personally, I take it that high-rep swings, snatches, and cleans in sets of 10 have muscle-building effects.
 
Strength training, at age 50, gives me enough hypertrophy stimulation for my goals maybe because I am an easy muscle gainer, or I have only a few years of exercising under my belt and hence novice, or maybe because I am far away from my strength goals hence hypertrophy specific training is not required for me to gain strength.

Fabio’s BTS3 and BTS4, BTS6 ebooks available on strongandfit web site are great resources.
 
I schedule my hypertrophy training and strength training in separate multi-week training blocks. This has been much more effective for me than attempting to train for both strength and muscle size/mass at the same time.

I have measured my progress by maintaining training logs, which record force measured by dynamometer and body measurements with sewing tape measure. So to me these are training methods that do not exist in myth at all, but are quite real and produce real results.

Pavel's book Power To The People was my first exposure to strength training with little to no visible muscle growth to go with it. This is also not a myth. I'm sure there are other sources to consult now if you want to get stronger without increasing muscle size/weight, because of your chosen sport or whatever personal reasons you may have... but this book is still a good read in its own right.

Nowadays my attitude towards hypertrophy is different than it was when I bought Power To The People and drank the koolaid about developing a strong, yet light and wiry body that could kick butt like Bruce Lee. Yes I have indeed embraced the pursuit of muscle mass, thanks to being educated about sarcopenia. Hypertrophy by way of Geoff Neupert's The Giant or Easy Muscle does not rely on isolation exercises, while in other methods like Grind Style Calisthenics and of course countless dumbell/barbell based programs do rely on isolation drills. So "isolation yes or no" should be answered by the overall program that you're looking at - what the underlying concepts of the program, what the objective are besides just growing muscle, etc. For example, Easy Muscle targets Type II fibers in particular, is anti-glycolitic, etc. GSC not AGT nor does it target Type II in particular - it's more like a traditional hypertrophy program.
 
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The hypertrophy experts are the golden era bodybuilders IMO. Perhaps also the modern day ninja turtle bodybuilders. Skinny scientists which big foam microphones with endless pages of studies I tend to disregard. I am saving hypertrophy training for when I get really (not far away) old. Presently low reps are changing how I look and I’m still getting a little stronger. In the future I hope to use the exercise chairs at the planet fatness. The isolation machines provide are excellent for hypertrophy provide recoverability and are safer.
 
silveraw said:
I've had great results the past year doing 5/3/1 with "hypertrophy" accessories in the 8-15 rep range for 3-6 sets. (yes, I know rep ranges aren't really in vogue, but I can recover a lot better from a hard 15/5 than I can a hard 3/5.) With strongman specific work 1-2 times a week.
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What templates have you been running? Currently debating between Leviathan w/ Widowmakers or BBB for squats.
 
fwiw, my appetite doesn't seem to go up that much when I'm working through an Easy Muscle block. I crave a dessert of mixed nuts and fruits a little more after dinner but that's about it.

I did have crazy hunger pangs once, several years ago when I went against GMB's advice and did sessions of GMB Rings One two days in a row. Got a bit of a growth spurt after that but to be so hungry that it's painful was quite the experience.
 
Anders said:
Do you hope to achieve a sufficiently amount of it just by practicing strength training regularly ?
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Well, yes , but actually no. That's to say: I would hope, but not for much.
Anders said:
Do you practice it some months of the year, or some weeks of the year ?
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I have a rule that I only focus on one thing at a time. So, months. Or however long the cycle lasts.
Anders said:
Or do you try to do it once or twice pr week, while simultaneously training endurance and strength ?
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I am young in this endeavor so it may change, but I take a cycle as being dedicated to some particular focus. Power, strength, snatch, swing, etc. Pick one thing, focus on it.
Anders said:
What kind of mythology do you follow ?
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I'm currently interested in some of the concepts presented by Mike Mentzer and Arthur Jones and practiced by Dorian Yates.
Intensity+brevity+infrequency=GAINZ
I'm dabbling in an attempt to grow my delts and biceps.
Weekly (or so) single top set to failure.

I am currently on my 5th or 6th re-reading of the strong endurance manual. I am very well inducted into its basic paradigms. Relatively intense work, and relatively complete rest. Repeat.

Anders said:
My view is that Strong First has not really published a specific book about it. They have some thoughts about it where they say that hypertrophy ought to be achieved simultaneously as you gain strength so that you are as strong as you look. And isolations movements are almost forbidden. The only product they seem to have released about this topic seem to be Built Strong which is pricey, but I am sure very good.

Any thoughts on this ?
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There is now built strong minimalist and built strong Maximum on strong and fit dot com. Which I understand to be cheaper than the built strong seminar.

Another thought, Alan thrall recently discussed bodybuilder training and strength training. When he intimated that the two were inseparable once upon a time; in bygone eras.

Mike Mentzer once opined that one should not seek merely to get bigger. They should instead seek to become stronger. And, in doing so, the training will get them bigger too, as a consequence.

Even the Strong Endurance manual suggests a framework for a hypertrophy focused protocol.
 
Adachi said:
Mike Mentzer once opined that one should not seek merely to get bigger. They should instead seek to become stronger. And, in doing so, the training will get them bigger too, as a consequence.
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That’s one thing I think I really agree on with his ideas. I like the idea of “do enough to make the gains you need and not more,” but critics of his method will point out that he (and Yates, if I am not mistaken), built his physique mostly with traditional barbell work and then maintained it with the HIT approach. There’s also the elephant in the room: PEDs.

Still, I like the idea. I’m just not quite sold that it’s as magic of a bullet as he made it sound.
 
I like the idea that hypertrophy should follow heavy work..Higher rep work bores me to death so if any muscle group that I would like to improve, I would find an exercise that I can really load heavy for that muscle group. For instance:
- Lower lats: t-bar row, touch and go sumo dl without full lock out
- Triceps: Dips, close grip bench, band triceps extension
- Quads: Leg press
I just hit a heavy set of 6-10 for that exercise (3-5 for deadlift) until I cannot increase the load, then switch to another
 
Anders said:
what people's view and practice around hypertrophy training is.
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Dr Brad Schoenfeld's Hypertrophy Research

Schoenfeld's resarch determine three factor optimize Hypertrophy

1) Mechanical Tension

Maximum Strength Training with Heavy Load, Long Rest Periods between Sets and Low Repetitions.

2) Metabolic Stress

This is Traditional Bodybuilding Training; Low to Moderate Loades, High to Moderate Retition, Short Rest Periods between Sets.

3( Muscle Damage

InFRequently pushing an Exercise to failure or close to it in a Periodization Training Cycle.

Loaded Stretching of the Muscles.

Anders said:
Do you practice it some months of the year, or some weeks of the year ?
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Block Training

Block Training invoves performing a Periodization Training Cycle, like Hypertrophy Training for a specific number of week, then moving on to another aspect of training: Speed, Power, or Maximum Strength.

Anders said:
Or do you try to do it once or twice pr week, while simultaneously training endurance and strength ?
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Conjugate Training

This method employs Hypertrophy, Power and Maximum Training in the same Periodization Training Cycle.

Dr Michael Zourdos Research

Zoudos' research demonstrated that greater gains in Maximum Strength occured with this approach.

Zourdos and Shoenfeld

Essentially, both used the same protocol to for Strength or Hypertrophy.

The differences lies in where the emphasis is place on those training components.


Anders said:
What kind of mythology do you follow ?
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Methodology

This is what you mean, right?

Traditional Block Periodization is effective.

Conjugate Training is effective.

Choose what you prefer.
 
Bill Lets said:
Skinny scientists which big foam microphones with endless pages of studies I tend to disregard.
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Expert Researchers

Many the Expert Reesarchers in the filed were athletes with Practical Experience. Dr Michael Stone, Dr Fred Hatfield, Dr Jacob Wilson, Dr Greg Haff, Dr John Garhammer, etc.

Disregading their research limits an indiviudal knowledge base when it come to optimizing an individual capability. As the Army ad says, why not "Be all you can be".

Bro Science

This is one of the dumbest term there is. It's more like Neanderthall Training.

While some of the information learn in gym work, there is a pletheora of misinformation that continues to be perpetuated and followed.
 
bluejeff said:
That’s one thing I think I really agree on with his ideas. I like the idea of “do enough to make the gains you need and not more,” but critics of his method will point out that he (and Yates, if I am not mistaken), built his physique mostly with traditional barbell work and then maintained it with the HIT approach. There’s also the elephant in the room: PEDs.

Still, I like the idea. I’m just not quite sold that it’s as magic of a bullet as he made it sound.
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My 2 cents, the bigger and stronger you are, the better HIT will work for you.
 
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