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Bodyweight "Naked Warrior" and the Deadlift

Cyrus-II

Level 5 Valued Member
I've been giving some thought now for months to "where do I go from here". I'm in the middle of S&S, and I think I'm just going to stay there. Perhaps permanently. Or perhaps once I reach Simple take up Easy Reg Park, or even Iron Cardio or Q&D. I don't know. Too far in the future. S&S for now.

And I'm always going to use the kettlebell as my main tool for strength training. 16KG, 24KG and 32KG are my main ones. I've toyed with some in-betweens weights like a 20KG or 28KG for offset weight double work. Or just keep doing S&S and look at a 40KG when I need one (could be a couple years). Or maybe I ditch them all and get something like the adjustable 12-32KG bells that KB Kings sells.

And I'm sticking to the S&S program, but I'm experimenting with adding a few bodyweight movements on "off" days in a GTG fashion. Specifically;

- Pullups. I want to get back to strict form, eventually doing weighted pullups. But I don't plan to specifically train for it either. I randomly knock out a few maybe once every other week and focus on form. Basically, I'm checking to see if my KB swings are helping (I think that they are!)
- Pushups. Again, more of just a practice in various pushup types. Nothing too crazy or strenuous. Just keep the movement pattern. In my teens I could do sloppy "Rocky" style OAP's. Sets of about ten. I tested myself on Saturday on an incline on a set of steps and could eke out a few randomly throughout the day. I'll keep working at them. I also occasionally do dands, dive-bombers, diamonds and archers when traveling for work or something.
- Pistols. I can still do them. I always have been able to since gymnastics and 2 hour a day doing trampoline sessions. Again not major reps or anything. But it's nice to see knocking out a slow set of 3-5 on each leg isn't a big deal.

So my thoughts have been percolating for months. Michael Perry's "living with one bell" thread and my own experiences camping out in the desert for a couple weeks last October and not being able to bring a KB along. I think this is where practicing some bodyweight movements can shine. I can always try to bring a sandbag to fill on-site, or use random rocks for stuff like TGU's or odd object lifting, if available. But some places I've been even those aren't available. And I couldn't really do a KB swing movement pattern.

But what about deadlifts? Is there any decent movement pattern that can help maintain this?
If not, perhaps...maybe I can try to sneak in a 16 or 20KG bell. But is it enough?

I've seen one-leg dead lifts. Maybe, but I question how much of a load that actually introduces.

I've also found a few who claim that doing wrestler or gymnast bridges will also augment part of the low back and posterior chain. I tried bridging again. I haven't done it in years. Gymnastic bridges are still a yes. I used to do some of Matt Furey's stuff many years ago and had worked up to nose to floor wrestler bridges. But at my age I question the intelligence of that and still wonder if they are all that useful for working some of the same muscles used for deadlifting to any serious tension/weight?

Some also claim there is some deadlift overlap with the pistol too?

I'm just curious to hear the thoughts of any here who have a focus on bodyweight strength training.
 
I’m not sure where, but I have seen Pavel talk about a lack of a strong hinge pattern is the biggest flaw in a calisthenic only lifting plan. You may want to do as many before you have, and even if you stick to S&S for the long term, take some detours along the way.
 
BJJ Shawn said:
I have seen Pavel talk about a lack of a strong hinge pattern is the biggest flaw in a calisthenic only lifting plan.
Click to expand...
He says so in the NW book. He suggests that weighted pistols may be of some substitute (they apparently load the lower back) but still not exactly equivalent.
 
Cyrus-II said:
And I'm always going to use the kettlebell as my main tool for strength training.
Click to expand...
Why? Other modalities have their respective potential benefits and detriments - there's no reason to limit yourself to only one way of doing things unless you must. Over the years, learning different things can be beneficial. It's not strictly necessary, of course, for general strength and conditioning, but there are benefits to having a bigger toolbox - just don't try to use all the tools all at once all the time.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
Why? Other modalities have their respective potential benefits and detriments - there's no reason to limit yourself to only one way of doing things unless you must. Over the years, learning different things can be beneficial. It's not strictly necessary, of course, for general strength and conditioning, but there are benefits to having a bigger toolbox - just don't try to use all the tools all at once all the time.

-S-
Click to expand...

Well, I was initially going into the why not a barbell and plates in my original post, but tried to keep it short and cut that paragraph. (Which I didn't really keep it short).

But the TLDR version is simplicity.

I don't exactly have room anywhere for a rack and bench. I considered opportunistically snagging a nice bar and plates used "some day" and just sticking to deadlift, front squat and some sort of clean and jerk or clean and press routine. And who knows. If I find some for a steal, never say never, right?

Still, there is something about KB's I just like more. Two or three or four don't take up much room, don't need a dedicated "workout room" or anything. They are also semi portable. Heck, you can even take one for a walk.

Still, I can foresee a day when as the kids get older that my wife and I will be traveling more and even a KB might be hard to pack around. So, this is the reason I'm pursuing bodyweight also.
 
@Cyrus-II, it's all good. I began deadlifting with a single 4' x 6' x 1/2" mat - the bar sticks out over the ends a little - and a 300 lb starter weight set which cost $179 at the time. You can find barbell and plates for relatively little money on craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, and similar. You don't need to do anything with your barbell except deadlift it for a long time. There is no need for a rack, no need for a bench unless you bench press. I squat using squat stands, another thing that's inexpensive and doesn't take up a lot of space, but the deadlift is king.

-S-
 
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pet' said:
Hello,

Al Kavadlo did a nice video about DL alternatives. Plus, some of them can be loaded.
<snip>

Kind regards,

Pet'
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Yes, thanks. I have seen a few of his videos. In fact, he and Matt Furey are the guys I thought of when I mentioned bridging above. There is also Ido Portal. But I definitely take him with a grain of salt. I just don't know that I've totally bought in. I would like to find out what those guys can actually deadlift, if taken to a barbell. I believe there is something to bridging. But, that's not necessarily readily accessible to the "normie". Or to us getting older. Like I said earlier, I question the intelligence of doing wrestler's bridges any more as I get older. Gymnast bridge, yeah probably for the next fifteen years and by then I'll be in my 60's.

Anyway, it seems that Pavel is right again. It's hard to optimally train the hinge pattern with bodyweight only exercises.

It would seem like, if at all possible, when one is taking extended travels that it would behoove them to try to take at least a 16, 20 or maybe 24KG bell with them. But strength can also perhaps at least be maintained with a variety of bodyweight movements too.
 
Hello @Cyrus-II ,

If I remember correctly, there was a video of Al who was deadlifting 2x bdw without specific barbel training. But I agree, hinge is harder to train using bodyweight only.

Obviously, full back bridge require some flexibility and mobility, which may take time to get.

Below are leg workout alternatives from A. Salkin:
medium.com

3 Bodyweight-Only Moves to Muscle Up Your Pencil Legs

One of the criticisms I often hear about calisthenics training is “you can’t strengthen your legs with your bodyweight only”.
medium.com medium.com


Kind regards,

Pet'
 
pet' said:
Hello @Cyrus-II ,

If I remember correctly, there was a video of Al who was deadlifting 2x bdw without specific barbel training. But I agree, hinge is harder to train using bodyweight only.

Obviously, full back bridge require some flexibility and mobility, which may take time to get.

Below are leg workout alternatives from A. Salkin:
medium.com

3 Bodyweight-Only Moves to Muscle Up Your Pencil Legs

One of the criticisms I often hear about calisthenics training is “you can’t strengthen your legs with your bodyweight only”.
medium.com medium.com


Kind regards,

Pet'
Click to expand...


I think it's still worth bridging, if one can. I think I'm going to run a long term experiment. I'll also do some form of the movement, but not as a main focus. Just GTG style too. Just to maintain form. Then when traveling use it when not convenient to use weights.
 
You can always do Good Mornings with one kettlebell.
Good Mornings supersetted with Squats (Goblet, Pistol or Cossack Squat) can help maintain or improve your deadlift.
Although I have always thought that a combination of bands and bodyweight is the best option when travelling. You can do Band Deadlifts or Band Good Mornings.
And don't forget Isometric Deadlifts.
 
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