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Old Forum New guy with question

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James Joyce

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Hi All, I really like the community you have going here.

I recently got into KBs a month ago and purchased ETK and S&S to start with.  I immediately started with the S&S program because it is so clearly laid out.  I am a 37 year old male in very good health with limited weight training experience.  I have had some shoulder stiffness and occassional discomfort in my right shoulder for a while, but nothing major.

I started out with a 16 kg bell which feels way too light for swings now, so I started working with a 24 kg (gradually tapering it into my sets).  When I went up in weight, I started to get some lower back soreness so I went back, videotaped myself and read all I could about swing form.  I think I finally got my form dialed in because my 24 kg swings feel great, no more back soreness and I can feel the excercise  in my hamstrings.

4 days ago, I got up early to do my S&S practice before work.  I am doing it as prescribed with the warm up prying goblet squats, bridges, halos.  I am doing 24 kg 2 hand swings for now.  As I was on my 6th or so set of 10 swings, I started getting what I thought was a side stitch (on the right side, same side as my slightly crummy shoulder), so I really thought nothing, had those many times before.  When I was doing my TGUs (I do 1 with the 24 and the last 4 with the 16 for now) the pain was a little more acute, especially after the press and getting up to the knee, and in reverse.

After a lot of googling side stitch, I started to think this is a serratus anterior strain (minor) because of the location (3" down from my right pec and towards my back ~3").  I found many pictures of a red X in this area for serratus anterior strain.  This training setback seemed to coincide with increased use of the 24 kg, but I'm wondering how I did it.

I hate to sit totally idle until the soreness subsides, anything I can or should be doing? Of course I recognize that I totally did this to myself through bad form, I'm just not sure how and desperately want to get back to training.

Also when I was doing the TGU with the 16, my shoulder had not felt that good in a long time so I'm sold on the rehab qualities of that excercise.

I really, really love the S&S program and can't wait to get back on track with it.  Any help is appreciated!
 
I'll predict the following advice to come:

Get checked by a doctor. Giving anything that looks like medical advice here is generally frowned up. And this means anything that even looks like it might be an injury.

Get your form checked by an SFG

If you can't get checked by an SFG, post a video on YouTube and link it here.
 
Sorry - I just read my reply and realized it sounds pretty curt. Didn't mean to. I just don't have any other advice, but I know you'll get more if you post a video. Then people can start giving you tips on your form.
 
Hey Jason I appreciate the reply. I re read my post and I do realize it is hard to diagnose by description. It really feela like a minor muscular strain not anything more and I was just wondering if anyone else had SA soreness when moving up in weight, or if that points to any specific deficiencies in form. thanks!
 
Well, like Jason said, I can't really give any advice on your injury. A good general rule (that I wish I were smarter about following) is if it hurts, don't do it.

But there are a few other things in your post I'd like to comment on. First, that you started KBs within the last month and have limited weight training experience. A lot of immediate gains in the first month or two of training come from neurological adaptations. You start to become more skilled and efficient at contracting your muscles and producing force, and therefore gain strength quickly.

The danger here is that your tissues take longer to begin to adapt, leaving you vulnerable to injury if you progress too rapidly (more force on tissues that aren't adapted to it). Plus, as a beginner, you don't necessarily have your form dialed in and may have some bad habits, or just be inconsistent in maintaining good habits.

Second, you mention switching to 24kg for two-handed swings. Did you work up to 10 sets of one-handed swings in 5 minutes with 16kg first? Then the next step would be to start working in sets of one-handed swings with 24kg. This would be the by-the-book progression. I'm not saying any deviation from strictly following the program is doomed to lead to injury (and following the book exactly will not necessarily guarantee you will avoid injury), but in your case we know the result, if not the exact cause.

Third, you mention making an adjustment in your form after experiencing some back soreness and beginning to feel the swing in your hamstrings. This is a good thing (and especially not having back soreness). However, your glutes should drive the swing as much or more than the hamstrings. Feeling the swing in the hamstrings, but not so much the glutes is often a sign that you hinging forward at the hip joint, but not driving the hips back sufficiently. It is driving the hips back and forward that should dirve the swing. Without that lateral hip displacement (nod to Dan John), the hamstrings have to do all the work and the glutes don't come into play as they should.

A video, especially from the side, would make it easier to identify any form problems you might be having.
 
James - check S&S again. I think, as I understand it, that Pavel recommends introducing a heavier bell in the get ups during the second or third set, not starting with it. ie, 16, 24, 16, 16, 16  or 16, 16, 24, 16, 16 rather than your 24, 16, 16, 16, 16.
 
Oops. Upon reviewing the book, I realize I did not represent it accurately above. Pavel does recommend an average man to start with 24kg for swings and build up to 10 sets two-handed. So skipping ahead to 24kg after starting with 16kg is not really deviating from the book.

However, for a beginner with limited weight training experience, I still think it would have been sensible to work through a progression with 16kg before moving up, especially in hindsight (which we know is 20/20) after an injury.
 
Steve and Alistair, thank you for the responses!

Steve, I found from taping my swings earlier trying to resolve the other issue that I'm really having to focus on hip hinge so I think you are probably on the money about not going back far enough.  I will try to post a video after resuming training.  Thanks again guys!
 
James,  I've found to help with the hip hinge and ensuring you are pushing them back is to do Glute wall touch.  I usually do 30-60 seconds worth of these prior to my swings everyday to help pattern in the movement and how it should feel.

Stand backside facing wall, 1 foot length from the wall with a shoulder width stance

Reach back with glutes and touch the wall

If you are successful, move the feet away 1 inch and try again

Repeat, each time moving forward, until you find the furthest point from the wall where you can successfully touch the wall without falling backward.

At this point you can practice the hip hinge, initially using the arms as a counter balance by reaching forward.

Inhale on the way back to touch the wall, exhale at the top as you tighten the glutes and core, creating a straight line from the ears to the ankles.


 
 
James, this is in no way related to your thread, but are you the James Joyce who was doing independent music in the Texas area through the early and mid 2000's?
 
No offense, I was kind of hoping you were the Irish writer/playwright/poet who died in 1941. Which might have accounted for the back soreness, but also would have made your lifts possible world records. I guess experimental music is also cool though. You don't happen to know Dave Watson do you? He's the only person I really know from  the experimental music scene in NY in that time period; I helped perform a piece he wrote for Bang On A Can at the WFC in the mid to late 90s.
 
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