Barbell Optimal rest time between sets for DE bench?

[metaldrummer]

I think I'm gonna start doing DE bench again, like 3 x 8, but it's been forever since I've done that and I can't remember how long I should rest. I thought back in the day I was resting 60 seconds but I just read an article talking about resting 20 seconds. I figured out what weight I should probably use but now I'm unsure what to time my rests for.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

DE bench... how long I should rest.

Dynamic Effort Training Rest Periods

This has been posted multiple time on this forum.

The Rest Period has to do with ATP Muscle Restoration.

ATP (The Phosphangen Energy Sysem) is one of the main dominate factors with Maximum Strength, Power and Speed Training.'

It is substantially depleted in around 10 seconds.

The longer the Rest Period, the greater amount of Muscle ATP Restoration that occurs; which ensures greater Force Production. In other words, the more Maximum Strength, Power and Speed an individual displays.

The shorter the Rest Periods, the less Force Production that is produced.

Cluster Set Dynamic Effort Training

Cluster Sets are Rest Periods between a Repetition in a Set or Repetitons in a SEt.

Training Percentages

This is one of the key elements of Dynanimic Effort Training. Power, as is Maximim Strength and Speed Training. It is reliant on the utilizing of the correct Training Percengage Ranges to ensure each of these Strengths is optimally developed.

To reiterate, the Guiodelines for Rest Periods and Training Pecentages Range for these Strengths has been posted multiple times on this forum.

 

[metaldrummer]

Dynamic Effort Training Rest Periods

This has been posted multiple time on this forum.

The Rest Period has to do with ATP Muscle Restoration.

ATP (The Phosphangen Energy Sysem) is one of the main dominate factors with Maximum Strength, Power and Speed Training.'

It is substantially depleted in around 10 seconds.

The longer the Rest Period, the greater amount of Muscle ATP Restoration that occurs; which ensures greater Force Production. In other words, the more Maximum Strength, Power and Speed an individual displays.

The shorter the Rest Periods, the less Force Production that is produced.

Cluster Set Dynamic Effort Training

Cluster Sets are Rest Periods between a Repetition in a Set or Repetitons in a SEt.

Training Percentages

This is one of the key elements of Dynanimic Effort Training. Power, as is Maximim Strength and Speed Training. It is reliant on the utilizing of the correct Training Percengage Ranges to ensure each of these Strengths is optimally developed.

To reiterate, the Guiodelines for Rest Periods and Training Pecentages Range for these Strengths has been posted multiple times on this forum.

So 20 seconds? 60 seconds? 30 seconds? You know, you don't have to respond if you don't want to help. Not all of us are rocket scientists, and not all of us have been here for years and know exactly what has or hasn't been discussed.

 

[Antti]

Take as short rests as you can while still improving your performance all the way during the exercise.

 

[Spartan Agoge]

IMO 8-10 sets of 2 reps, with 15-20 seconds rest is ideal for DE.

 

[John K]

I think I'm gonna start doing DE bench again, like 3 x 8, but it's been forever since I've done that and I can't remember how long I should rest. I thought back in the day I was resting 60 seconds but I just read an article talking about resting 20 seconds. I figured out what weight I should probably use but now I'm unsure what to time my rests for.

Usually 1 to 2 min.

 

[Steve Freides]

So 20 seconds? 60 seconds? 30 seconds?

A Google here finds recommendations of 2-3 minutes rest between sets

... for strength-focused (as opposed to hypertrophy-focused) strength training.

... for Westside DE day.

... for Olympic lifting.

WSBB Blog: Structuring Your DE Lower Training

One of the most commonly misunderstood things about our training methods is dynamic effort lower day. Many people misunderstand what the goal is, or fail to execute the exercise correctly to achieve the desired training effect. Are you one of these people? If so you really should read this!

www.westside-barbell.com

Help & Info for Olympic Weightlifting Workouts & Training Programs - Catalyst Athletics

Help & Info for Olympic Weightlifting Workouts & Training Programs - Catalyst Athletics

www.catalystathletics.com

-S-

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

So 20 seconds? 60 seconds? 30 seconds? You know, you don't have to respond if you don't want to help.

Rest Periods

Research has demonstrated approximately the following ATP Muscle Restoration occurs..

1) 30 Second

Approximately 50% of ATP Muscle Restoration.

2) 45 Seconds

Right at 80 % of ATP Muscle Restoration

Thus, an additional 30% (50 % to 80%) allows more Force Production.

Westside Dynamic Effort Rest Period

Westside's Rest Periods are One (1) Minute.

EMOM, Every Minute On The Minute

This method is at times is employed with Kettlebell Swings, as well as other Movements.

3) 3 Minutes or Longer

100% of ATP Muscle Restoration.

Stop When Power or Speed Drops

Once Power or Speed Output Drops, stop the Movement.

Continuing in a fatigued state means that you are no longer Training nor Developmenting Power or Speed.

For Maximum Strength Training...

Pavel Tsatsouline on GTG, optimal rep count and rest duration for strength



This is a great point by Pavel. Up to 15 minutes is effective for Maximum Strength Training.

The key to optimizing a Maximum Strength Set is to be fully recovered.

In other words, wait until you feel completely recovered for the Maximum Strength Set.

If you feel recovered after let's say 8 minutes, go. If not, wait until you feel fully recovered.

Strength Training Percentages

1) Power, Dynamic Effort Training

a) 46-62% of 1 Repetition Max for Traditional Strength Training Exercises

b) 70-80% of 1 Repetition Max for Olympic Movements

2) Speed Training

10-40% of 1 Repetition, with the sweet spot being around 30%.

3) Maximum Strength Training

85% of 1 Repetition Max

Strength, Power and Speed Training Repetitions

The Sets and Repetition are the same for Maximum Strength, Power and Speed.

What separates these three Strengths is the Training Load Percentage.

From 0-100: Know Your Training Percentages
Chris Thibaudeau

From 0 – 100: Know Your Percentages - Thibarmy

While training percentages can vary depending on how you're feeling on a given day, they can still be extremely useful.

thibarmy.com

This is a good article that provides a General Guideline for Training the various Types of Strength.

 

[Boris Bachmann]

I think I'm gonna start doing DE bench again, like 3 x 8, but it's been forever since I've done that and I can't remember how long I should rest. I thought back in the day I was resting 60 seconds but I just read an article talking about resting 20 seconds. I figured out what weight I should probably use but now I'm unsure what to time my rests for.

20 sec rest is not enough. You could go on the minute, or 2, or 3. Kenny says on the minute and maybe that's THE number, but the WS bench workouts (on VHS tapes many years ago admittedly) and heard people talk about workouts at WS, they are (or were) getting more rest than that.

For what you think it's worth, for my DE squats, I generally do sets on 3 mins - start the clock, get going, next set starts at 3 mins, next at 6 mins, etc.

 

[Don Fairbanks]

Time stamped. Forty-five seconds, approximately.

 

[Boris Bachmann]

Time stamped. Forty-five seconds, approximately.

If you bench fast triples on the minute, then yeah. iirc Louie wrote and talked a lot about the difference in rest intervals and reps/set on DE day between squat and bench press. BP takes so much less time to crank out reps.

I'm pretty sure there are clips when Louie's bitching about how guys are taking too long and totally screwing up their training (which, you know, I can relate to both as a coach who thinks "OMG! You MUST follow this to the letter!" and as an athlete thinking "Calm the f down, Coach..." - the truth probably being somewhere in between).

 

[Antti]

I still stand by my original reply in its simplicity. It stands for however we want to see the method.

Now, we can talk about dynamic effort like Louie talked about it. Or DE as in The Science and Practice of Strength Training. Or compensatory acceleration training like Hetfield and later Bryant.

Force is mass multiplied by acceleration. It is always paramount to focus on acceleration throughout the lift.

Some use a lighter load, some a heavier. Load capacity also develops. Lighter loads allow shorter rest periods. Heavier obviously not. Both serve a purpose. No reason to choose just either one.

I'd say the lighter load with short rests like Westside is an advanced method, like it demands more proficiency, and it's maybe not that useful unless you're more advanced. It builds on the base of strength, ,which you must have. The inherent fatigue also demands higher technical proficiency, but the number of first reps and the fatigue and actually vividly remembering your earlier set enhances your skill development.

I really like bands for dynamic effort. When it comes to lighter loads, I'd say they're a must.

When it comes to the Westside load parameters they're actually very heavy. If you want to try the method, I'd just start light, and see if you can keep the speed up the whole ten minutes. Then go up every week until you don't. Then, start doing three week waves so that you end slightly below the point you can't keep it up. Then slowly creep up the three week waves. You just have to try it yourself. Pick a load that's lighter than you'd like. It's not meant to be like the max, submax or repeated effort method.

 

[Don Fairbanks]

If you bench fast triples on the minute, then yeah. iirc Louie wrote and talked a lot about the difference in rest intervals and reps/set on DE day between squat and bench press. BP takes so much less time to crank out reps.

I'm pretty sure there are clips when Louie's bitching about how guys are taking too long and totally screwing up their training (which, you know, I can relate to both as a coach who thinks "OMG! You MUST follow this to the letter!" and as an athlete thinking "Calm the f down, Coach..." - the truth probably being somewhere in between).

I hear you Boris.
MetDrum's question was about DE bench.
45-60 seconds.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

acceleration training like Hetfield and later Bryant. It is always paramount to focus on acceleration throughout the lift.

Compensatory Acceleration

This is one of the keys to the development of Power and Speed.

The issue is that with lighter loads a greater portion of the Movement is devoted to slowing the Bar Speed down; learning to go slower.

Another obstacle when training for an explosive bench press (even at lower percentages of 1 RM) is the deceleration of the bar during the lift. "Research has shown as much as 75% of a movement can be devoted to slowing the bar down." (Flannagan, 2001). Elliot et al. (1989) revealed that during 1-RM bench presses, the bar decelerates for the final 24 % of the range of motion. At 81% of 1-RM, the bar deceleration occurs during the final 52% of the range of motion. The accompanying deceleration phases result in significantly decreased motor unit recruitment, velocity of movement, power production and compromises the effectiveness of the exercise." (Berry et. al., 2001)
Source: Plyometric Bench Press Training for More Strength and Power, Croxdale/ Morris

Two Method of Maintaining Compensatory Acceleration

1) Ballistic Training

Ballistic defined as an object (like a Barbell) or Body going airbone. This ensure Power and/or Speed is developed through the Full Range of the Movement.

Examples: Bench Press Throws, Jump Squats or Trap Bar Jumps.

lighter load with short rests like Westside

Moderate Loads

Research shows that Moderate Loads of 46-62% of 1 Repetition Max develop Power.

Light Loads of 10-40%, with around 30% of 1 Repetition Max develop Speed.

2) Accomodation Reisistance Training

bands for dynamic effort. When it comes to lighter loads, I'd say they're a must.

Attaching Bands and/or Chain to an Ascending Curve Exercise (Squats, Bench Press, Deadlift, Leg Press, Pressing Movements) ensure a lifter is able to maintain Power/Sp[eed though the Full Range of The Movement.

Summary

1) Two Method That Promoted Full Range Power Devlopment.

a) Ballistic Training

b) Acommodating Strength Training

2) Decrease In Power and/or Speed

Once a decrease in Power and/or Speed occurs, the Set and/or Exercise needs to be terminated.

Continuing once that occurs mean you are no longer training nor developing Power and/or Speed.