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Old Forum Pavel: Help!

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rfin58

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I have truly bought into kettlebell training! Completing ETK and lost weight, gained muscle, and feel great. Thank you!

What is Next? What program would you recommend from here? I love kettlebells and not interested in barbell training. Anyone have recommendations or publications to research and implement?

Would a SFG course be best option?

feedback appreciated by all
 
So when you say "completing ETK" do you mean you got to the point of doing a 1/2 Bw press and 200 snatches with the 24 in 10 minutes? If not, I think you could do what Bill said and stay on ETK forever until you do simply by getting bigger bells and starting over. I don't mean that as a criticism or challenge, but it's amazing how long you can just keep plugging away on the program. If you haven't added pullup ladders into your sessions, you could always do that also.
 
 

I am a fan on single KB exercise, but you could do the ROTK. Get a heavier bell and work from there, there is noting wrong with doing the ROP with the beast. Also maybe get Pavel’s first book, RKC, It has some ideas on what to do different types of press you could do,

it depends on what your goals are
 
Rick - What are your goals? That will determine what course of action is next. There are several places to go if you "completed ETK" (assuming you mean both the Program Minimum and the Rite of Passage when you say "ETK").

If not, continue on until you finish the program. After several random acts of variety, a couple complex based programs, and a SFG Cert I have found a new appreciation for the Rite of Passage program and am loving it now.
 
Rick,

Unless you've done a 1/2 bodyweight MP and passed the SSST, ETK is not "completed". I am one of the many who has lost patience with the ROP and prematurely jumped to other programs. Right now I am just grinding away on my ROP and my progress in strength is the best i've ever enjoyed.

The ROP will take you wher you want to go, it'll just take a while.

Jim
 
Consider this:

http://www.strongfirst.com/strongfirst-sfg-kettlebell-certification-prep-guide/
 
I can just support Jim and his "lost patience with the ROP and prematurely jumped to other programs."

I went from ETK-PM to ROP too early and noticed stagnation in my pressing (stagnation: number of possible rangs decreases after week 4/5 from shaky 5*5 to 5*3, muscle pain etc).

My suspect: the base joint & muscle stability from the TGUs is missing, haven't done sufficient ground work.

Learning: built sufficient 'mileage' with the basics to progress in a sustainable way.

Keep it 'boring' as long as you see success (but: define 'success' = goals - see former contributors)
 
Great feedback!  Appreciated!  So to further the discussion, I plan on doing the ETK over again--- 4 weeks of Program Minimum --followed by the progression of ladders (with pulls) "Rite of Passage".... I am planning to restart the program, but with heavier kettlebells...

Does this sound like a good plan?
 
BTW:

My goal is weight loss and being lean, and gaining some muscle in the proccess... but being lean and weight loss is at the forefront.
 
Program Minimum is fantastic for leaning out, nice and simple, and two exercises that will keep that heart rate up. Sounds like a great plan. You can milk the PM and the ROP for a lot by upping the bell size.
 
Rick, have done both the PM and RoP and I think you will find good results on these programs.  Speaking from experience, be aware that small kinks in your technique can turn into problems with volume.  If you haven't worked with an SFG yet, get your technique checked out, or better yet go to the SFG Users Course.  It will be well worth the time & money.
 
Curious on experiences of members

for PM what size KB did you start with and progress to?  Get ups, swings.

For ROP: snatches, clean and press ladders

 

 
 
I started the PM about seven months ago, but I've had a few interruptions.

I had a heart attack and was out for about three weeks.

I went on the ROP for about a month - found it was too much volume for me. It took too much time, and it started to bother my bad shoulder.

I broke my ankle and was out for about three months.

I haven't worked out in the last three weeks for home/personal reasons.

So, I've really spent about 2-3 months on it, and not in a row.

I started doing it by the book, and started with the 16kg for TGUs and the 24kg for swings. The TGUs were difficult, and I was struggling to get 130 swings.

After a few weeks, the TGUs got easier, and five minutes didn't seem like enough, so I started trying to work up to the goal of 15 minutes. I also started doing the first 1-2 reps of the TGU with the 24kg. Swings got a little better - I think up to 180 reps in the 12 minutes.

Recently, I've stopped timing the drills, and I'm using the 24kg for more reps in the TGU. My plan is to work up to 5-8 reps per side with the 24kg, then start doing the first 1-2 reps with the 32kg (which I don't have yet). Basically, the same way I started slowly working the 24kg into the TGUs.

For the swing, I'm still using the 24kg, but I'm no longer timing myself. I'm taking a bit from Dan John's 10,000 swing article (swinging almost every day), and am trying to get in 200-250 reps on my "swing" days.

Actually - I'm really doing both the TGU and swing in each workout. But, I have two "TGU" days and two "swing" days. On TGU days, I do my full TGU workout, and finish with at least 100 swings. On swing days, I do 2-3 TGUs, then do at least 200 swings. Again, I'm no longer timing either of these workouts, but they take 20-30 minutes each.

My goal is to work up to 5-8 reps per side with the 32kg in the TGU. I'm not sure about a swing goal, but maybe 200 swings in 10 minutes with the 24kg. I know most people want to work up to the Beast for the TGU. I'm not sure about that for myself. I'm 42 with a bum shoulder, and I've never been able to military press more than 105 pounds. So for me, I'd be ecstatic to do TGUs with a 32kg.

In the short time I was on the ROP, I used the 16kg for presses and snatches, and the 24kg for swings. I think I worked the presses up to 4x(1,2,3,4,5) ladders, and it began to bother my bad shoulder (childhood injury - AC separation I'm pretty sure).
 
I started the PM back in May with 1.5xBW DL and a 1+xBW Bench (BW=78kg).

When I started the PM I did the TGUs balancing a shoe, and then a 10lb dumbbell and worked up from there.  My swing bell was the 16kg.  After a couple of months my TGU was up to 16kg also.

That is when I started the RoP with the 16kg for both presses & swings with BW pull-ups.  After about 6 weeks on that my forearms were smoked so I backed off to the PM with the 16kg again.

After about 3 weeks on the PM I started the RoP over again with the 16kg at the beginning to give my arms time to adapt. I thought I had just ramped the volume too fast but, I also had a jerky drop from the rack position on my cleans.  Not too long after I went to the SFG Users Course and the SFGs there straightened out my form and also cleaned up my swing a bit too.

After reaching 5 x 1,2,3,4 with the 16kg I tested up to the 20kg.  Now I am up to that same point with the 20kg and I use the 24kg for swings.  Just this morning I got a 32kg for some heavy swings.  I can't wait to get it home.

 
 
Great Feedback!  How do you guys do your program minimum for 12 minutes? Swings and 1 minute of jogging? what are your preferences?
 
When I was timing my swings (12 minutes), I would do sets of 10 swings. Active recovery between sets was basically marching in place, bringing my knees high. I work out in my back yard and don't have the space to jog. Between most sets I would march 20 steps (10 each leg), and I think that takes 20-30 seconds.

Now when I swing, I do clusters of (10, 15, 25), and do the same marching in place as my active recovery between sets. I do "march" for more steps after the set of 25 though, so I rest a little longer there.
 
I like swinging at the top of every minute and bouncing in place for the active recovery, sort of like jump roping without the rope.  I have done it with both the jump roping and jogging on a treadmill and both are pretty fantastic also, but I am space/equipment limited at the moment.  Depending on weight I like between 10-20 reps per minute.  I will take longer rests as needed or drop the reps in latter sets if I started out too ambutious.
 
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