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Strong Endurance Plan 060 vs Plan 024

Xene

Level 6 Valued Member
I am planning to build my aerobic base during the next months.
Has anyone used the plan 060 or the plan 024 (SE manual) for this purpose?

Both seem to build the aerobic base. The 024 uses a slightly heavier bell while 060 increases in density and shorter rest periods.
Has anyone used one of those plans or both? What did you experience, any success stories?
 
If you want to build your aerobic base, doing 80% of your work at zone 2 cardio seems to be the way. Maffetone, Steve House, Killian Jornet, etc.

Kettlebells will give you some of the same adaptions but, if aerobic base is your true goal, 80% of your volume at zone 2.
 
I'm using 060 (some kind of) right now. And also last year since January to April. Next week I'm going to start with phase 2. I feel well, my RHR went down, my aerobic capacity is much better, but i also add a little bit more of LISS. I can't tell about 024 because I didn't attend to SE.
 
If you want to build your aerobic base, doing 80% of your work at zone 2 cardio seems to be the way. Maffetone, Steve House, Killian Jornet, etc.

Kettlebells will give you some of the same adaptions but, if aerobic base is your true goal, 80% of your volume at zone 2.
Yes, I know this. My training will contain some runs / rows in this zone - but due to lack of time I want to get the same adaptions from my kettlebell training as well.

I don‘t know why those plans (060 and 024) are not more popular. Especially if you follow Derek Toshner with his approach to ultra endurance events and mountaineering. In my opinion every person can benefit from a kind of base building once or twice a year. If you read Tactical Barbell it‘s well written down how to do it an why to do it.

Whenever I dive into hypertrophy or extended strength blocks I feel how I lose some kind of conditioning (what makes sense..), especially how my RHR goes up and how my recovery between hard sprints or similar stuff (martial arts training) suffers. That‘s what I experience right now. I did some double kettlebell work this fall and then started with IC this winter. I gained weight (this was the goal) but in my martial art training my ability to do lots of push ups and recover from heavy bag work etc. is not at it‘s best. I also feel it when I play soccer with the kids or we play other physical games. I am not used to higher reps anymore.

Those base building weeks/months are always a time to push my push up and pull up numbers and to work on my mobility. I wondered where higher rep work (strength endurance ) fit into the SF-principles. I mostly train low rep, high volume, but it‘s like missing something.
 
Yes, I know this. My training will contain some runs / rows in this zone - but due to lack of time I want to get the same adaptions from my kettlebell training as well.

I don‘t know why those plans (060 and 024) are not more popular. Especially if you follow Derek Toshner with his approach to ultra endurance events and mountaineering. In my opinion every person can benefit from a kind of base building once or twice a year. If you read Tactical Barbell it‘s well written down how to do it an why to do it.

Whenever I dive into hypertrophy or extended strength blocks I feel how I lose some kind of conditioning (what makes sense..), especially how my RHR goes up and how my recovery between hard sprints or similar stuff (martial arts training) suffers. That‘s what I experience right now. I did some double kettlebell work this fall and then started with IC this winter. I gained weight (this was the goal) but in my martial art training my ability to do lots of push ups and recover from heavy bag work etc. is not at it‘s best. I also feel it when I play soccer with the kids or we play other physical games. I am not used to higher reps anymore.

Those base building weeks/months are always a time to push my push up and pull up numbers and to work on my mobility. I wondered where higher rep work (strength endurance ) fit into the SF-principles. I mostly train low rep, high volume, but it‘s like missing something.
More power to you.

You say you're gunning for 'the same adaptions' with kettlebell protocols.

You'll get some adaptions for sure, but there are many, many threads on the site with people confirming that, if you're goal is to build an aerobic base, there's really no substitute for steady-state zone 2 work at volume.

So, similar adaptions: maybe.
Same adaptions: no.
 
More power to you.

You say you're gunning for 'the same adaptions' with kettlebell protocols.

You'll get some adaptions for sure, but there are many, many threads on the site with people confirming that, if you're goal is to build an aerobic base, there's really no substitute for steady-state zone 2 work at volume.

So, similar adaptions: maybe.
Same adaptions: no.
And both are fine. You have to make your program work within the constraints of your own life.
 
More power to you.

You say you're gunning for 'the same adaptions' with kettlebell protocols.

You'll get some adaptions for sure, but there are many, many threads on the site with people confirming that, if you're goal is to build an aerobic base, there's really no substitute for steady-state zone 2 work at volume.

So, similar adaptions: maybe.
Same adaptions: no.
And the adoptions is easier/faster to get from 30-60min z2 running/Rowling that with kb.
 
More power to you.

You say you're gunning for 'the same adaptions' with kettlebell protocols.

You'll get some adaptions for sure, but there are many, many threads on the site with people confirming that, if you're goal is to build an aerobic base, there's really no substitute for steady-state zone 2 work at volume.

So, similar adaptions: maybe.
Same adaptions: no.
Well, but @Xene is doing Z2 work and wants to know more about specific Strong Endurance protocols that might be a good fit. See for example this article:

Also, Pavel writes on A+A:
“Cardio”

It is a common myth that anything that raises the heart rate gets the job done. For reasons outside the scope of this article, the exercise must be dynamic, not a “grind,” to do your heart good.

According to other Swedish research, the particular loading pattern—brief periods of work and brief periods of rest—result in heart rate dynamics similar to moderate intensity steady state running: the gold standard for heart development.
KB training can help with mitochondrial development in fast twitch fibers (peripheral adaptstions) - and apparently even with healthy heart adaptations.

@Xene, my guess is that most of "us" are focusing on strength/power work andd therefore hesitate to work with lighter bells.
 
Where can I read a summary of plan 024? Im not talking the exact programming, just curious the general idea of the program.
060 is a light weight snatch protocol similar to jogging intensity if I remember correctly
 
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