Barbell Powerlifts + assisstance to fill in gaps for well balanced devlopment

[Madboi]

I'm quite minimalist(not absolute but leaning a bit towards it) in my workouts. If i see that a muscle gets hit hard then i wont do another exercise for it(hit hard doesnt mean it goes to failure and i know this is 'suboptimal'). For example my triceps in the bench press dont get worked to failure but work hard as hell still.

By the way, i do my powerlifts for low reps strength for little muscle

then do back off sets for hypertrophy for my powerlifts

If you notice that i have no idea what muscles I'm hitting in my workout then please tell me

If anyone has sources on how to find out what exercises hit what muscles then please tell me

My workout goes like this:
Mon- squat(quads, glutes), bicep curl(biceps get active recovery on back day if i do them here), calf raise
Wed- bench(triceps, chest, front delt), lateral raise(side delt)
Fri- deadlift(glutes, hammies, traps idk), ???? idk what else to round out my back

For strength lifts i use andy bolton form

The problem is, i know that barbell rows and lat pulldowns will pretty much round out my back but i like to start off with a deadlift so i dont have to do work for my hammies (and maybe glutesif i find out squats dont hit my glutes hard).

What other exercise or exercises besides the deadlift will round out my back development approximately as much as barbell rows + lat pulldowns will??

Will i not need another exercise to reach that level of back development?

Also, i dont know the deadlift technique for hypertrophy. This is needed because i learned my powerlifting deadlift misses some muscles(i use andy Bolton's form and im not a competitive powerlifter). It even states this in any bolton's book. By the way, andy bolton did stuff in a way which his deadlift mostly gave him strength and he did quite a bit of back assistance. I do back off so yeah

For squat and bench back offs i plan to use andy bolton technique because I'll still hit my muscles well and i heard(not sure so im quite skeptical) the muscle involved in squats don't change much when a different squat stance is utilised. Or maybe they do. If they don't then how would i change my squat form to benefit me like change it so i can hit my hammies, glutes and quads and then dimel deadlift to make my back rounded out. Or maybe it would be impossible to round out my back with one exercise so i should just squat like andy bolton and then deadlift with a form where my back and hammies are involved and then add another exercise or exercises.

Dimel deadlifts wont work because dont they try to take the hammies out of the equation

By the way i know how to breathe and brace for a deadlift

If someone wants to know my goals: I don't want to spend much time in the gym. Just want to get stronger in everyday life and i think aesthetics will be taken care of in that pursuit. Just want to be able to be physically capable like jump out of a burning fire. This means i wont really care if the 24th head of my quadricep is missed out.

 

[Boris Bachmann]

The problem is, i know that barbell rows and lat pulldowns will pretty much round out my back but i like to start off with a deadlift so i dont have to do work for my hammies (and maybe glutesif i find out squats dont hit my glutes hard).
What other exercise or exercises besides the deadlift will round out my back development approximately as much as barbell rows + lat pulldowns will??
Will i not need another exercise to reach that level of back development?

I'm not really sure where you're lacking, but pull-ups, one arm db rows, and pullovers are also solid choices. Hyperextensions (aka 'back extensions') maybe too.

Dimel deadlifts wont work because dont they try to take the hammies out of the equation

I'm not sure what you mean by that - Dimel DLs hit the glutes and hams pretty hard.

 

[Madboi]

I'm not really sure where you're lacking, but pull-ups, one arm db rows, and pullovers are also solid choices. Hyperextensions (aka 'back extensions') maybe too.

So if one of the back exercises was the deadlift. then what other back exercises would i need to make my back development as well rounded as if i did barbell rows and lat pulldowns

 

[Adachi]

If anyone has sources on how to find out what exercises hit what muscles then please tell me

A buddy of mine pointed me to this page when we were talking about exercise selection for specific muscles.

MuscleWiki - Simplify your workout

MuscleWiki is a fitness app with a comprehensive exercise library that includes videos and written instructions for over 2000 exercises. With a simple and intuitive bodymap that guides you to exercises for a particular muscle, you can simplify your workout with exercises suitable for beginners...

musclewiki.com

 

[justinr]

So if one of the back exercises was the deadlift. then what other back exercises would i need to make my back development as well rounded as if i did barbell rows and lat pulldowns

Based on your original post, it sounds like you do the big 3 and some isolation work (curls, delt raises, etc.) but you want to target your back a little more than just depending on deadlift. Boris gave you some great things to do (pull-ups, chin-ups, one-arm rows, etc.) in addition to the 2 that you listed - lat pulldowns and barbell rows.

So are you asking for alternatives to barbell rows and lat pulldowns because you don’t want to do them? Or are you asking for additions to barbell rows and lat pulldowns?

I mean there are tons of videos on YouTube that will show you how to hit every muscle on your back with a specific movement. But you’re no longer going to be minimalist. If you want to only pick up 1 or 2 movements for the back, you’ll be really, really hard pressed to find any that are as efficient and hit as many muscles in one go as bent over barbell row and lat pulldown (although I’d suggest pull-ups/chin-ups if you can do them over lat pulldown).

 

[John K]

What other exercise or exercises besides the deadlift will round out my back development approximately as much as barbell rows + lat pulldowns will??

Rows and pull-ups, you don't need anything else, especially if you have limited aesthetic goals and the desire to be as minimal as possible

Will i not need another exercise to reach that level of back development?

Deadlift + Rows & Pull-ups is pretty awesome. If you absolutely must, just pick one (rows or pull-ups).

deadlift technique for hypertrophy

Slower lowering, barely touching the ground or even floating (it doesn't touch the ground)

how would i change my squat form to benefit me like change it so i can hit my hammies, glutes and quads

Your squat form should already be hitting those.

 

[solarbear]

I'd be tempted to

M - Squat, Dumbbell Clean and Press, Pull Up
W - Bench, Dumbbell Front Squat, Barbell Row
F - DL, OHP, Pull Up

 

[Bill Lets]

Sounds to me like you would benefit from Starting Strength programing. Starting Strength looks at the big three as movement patterns and not individual muscle training. In times past they called it foundation training. In the eighties I was told to squat, bench and row then drink milk till I cannot move. Of coarse I did not listen and did workouts found in bodybuilding books and did not make the “gains” that I could have.

 

[Anna C]

Sounds to me like you would benefit from Starting Strength programing.

Yes, or any other established program along those lines... Greyskull, StrongLifts, 5/3/1... StrongFirst Reload would be a good option too.

My workout goes like this:
Mon- squat(quads, glutes), bicep curl(biceps get active recovery on back day if i do them here), calf raise
Wed- bench(triceps, chest, front delt), lateral raise(side delt)
Fri- deadlift(glutes, hammies, traps idk), ???? idk what else to round out my back

Are you following some sort of program or progression? What is it that makes you feel that certain things are lacking?

 

[Madboi]

So are you asking for alternatives to barbell rows and lat pulldowns because you don’t want to do them?

Just want to deadlift because i think that will hit my hammies and glutes hard enough(correct me if I'm wrong).

This means it would be good to find a good exercise to fill in the gaps the deadlift makes.

And the result being, my back would be rounded out on the level of how barbell rows and pulldowns do it

 

[Madboi]

Your squat form should already be hitting those.

Wouldn't my squat form not involve my hammies enough??

Like comparable to how much the tris are hit on the bench press

 

[John K]

Wouldn't my squat form not involve my hammies enough??

Like comparable to how much the tris are hit on the bench press

Squat doesn’t hit hammies compared to hinge-lifts like deadlift varieties, yes. Hams are still pretty heavily involved. I don’t think the hams will be the limiting factor in a squat, regardless of style.

What exactly are you asking?

 

[John K]

Just want to deadlift because i think that will hit my hammies and glutes hard enough(correct me if I'm wrong).

This means it would be good to find a good exercise to fill in the gaps the deadlift makes.

And the result being, my back would be rounded out on the level of how barbell rows and pulldowns do it

Deadlift is great for hammies and glutes. Not great at building a muscular back. Rows and pull-ups are better for back building.

If you just want to deadlift, cool. But that means less back development compared to someone that also rows and does pull-ups. If that’s OK with your goals, mazel tov, just deadlift.

 

[Madboi]

Deadlift is great for hammies and glutes. Not great at building a muscular back. Rows and pull-ups are better for back building.

If you just want to deadlift, cool. But that means less back development compared to someone that also rows and does pull-ups. If that’s OK with your goals, mazel tov, just deadlift.

So would you say that deadlifts + any other back exercise will always be less good than barbell rows + pull ups

 

[John K]

So would you say that deadlifts + any other back exercise will always be less good than barbell rows + pull ups

No, there are a lot of fine back exercises. I would also rarely say "always better" or "always worse." I think there are a lot of really good exercises you can do for just about anything, depending on your goals and tolerances.

When I say "rows" I mean "row variations" - barbell is probably my least favorite row variation, but it is highly accessible as all you need is a bar and some plates. I love the pull-up, but I'm not against the pulldown.

I think the "most complete" minimalist program uses both vertical and horizontal pulling. I think that you could also give up one of those pulling movements and still do pretty well because there is a lot of overlap between vertical and horizontal pulling. In my experience, dropping the horizontal row and just training pull-ups keeps my rows pretty good, but dropping pull-ups and just rowing my pull-ups drop a lot. I'm also a Big Boy and never been good at pull-ups, so it may be different for someone who's sized down and is amazing at pull-ups.

 

[Madboi]

No, there are a lot of fine back exercises. I would also rarely say "always better" or "always worse." I think there are a lot of really good exercises you can do for just about anything, depending on your goals and tolerances.

When I say "rows" I mean "row variations" - barbell is probably my least favorite row variation, but it is highly accessible as all you need is a bar and some plates. I love the pull-up, but I'm not against the pulldown.

I think the "most complete" minimalist program uses both vertical and horizontal pulling. I think that you could also give up one of those pulling movements and still do pretty well because there is a lot of overlap between vertical and horizontal pulling. In my experience, dropping the horizontal row and just training pull-ups keeps my rows pretty good, but dropping pull-ups and just rowing my pull-ups drop a lot. I'm also a Big Boy and never been good at pull-ups, so it may be different for someone who's sized down and is amazing at pull-ups.

Like, not from a strength perspective but a hypertrophy perspective

 

[Steve Freides]

If someone wants to know my goals: I don't want to spend much time in the gym. Just want to get stronger in everyday life and i think aesthetics will be taken care of in that pursuit.

If you notice that i have no idea what muscles I'm hitting in my workout then please tell me

If anyone has sources on how to find out what exercises hit what muscles then please tell me

You don’t need to know.

-S-

 

[John K]

Like, not from a strength perspective but a hypertrophy perspective

Any of those lifts can and will contribute to hypertrophy. Deadlifts + Rows (Horizontal Pulling) or Deadlifts + Pull-ups (Vertical Pulling) will build a bigger and better back than Deadlift by itself. And Deadlifts + Horizontal Pulling + Vertical Pulling will build an even bigger and better back.

But this is starting to drift further afield from what you said your goals were:

If someone wants to know my goals: I don't want to spend much time in the gym. Just want to get stronger in everyday life and i think aesthetics will be taken care of in that pursuit.

If that is true, then deadlift + pull-up would be the most minimal option of strength, contributing to the most useful life skills, and letting aesthetics take care of itself.

Up to a point, if you do more you get more results, but it also takes more time. One back exercise takes half the time of two back exercises, and two back exercises won't get you twice the results of one back exercises. But two back exercises will get you more results... so there's the trade off.

 

[Steve Freides]

If he says

If someone wants to know my goals: I don't want to spend much time in the gym. Just want to get stronger in everyday life and i think aesthetics will be taken care of in that pursuit.

then why does it matter? At the recent Programming Demystified seminar - great stuff! - Fabio mentioned that he'd stood behind me at one point and observed that my spinal erectors were my most hypertropied muscles. I never knew, and that observation makes no difference to me. The reason things matter about what muscles are being worked is when you reach a certain point with a lift and you want to introduce specialized variety in order to improve your weaknesses. That's where I'm at with my deadlift, and I need to choose specialized variety exercises that will address those weaknesses. If you're not at that point, and you "think asethetics will be taken care of in that pursuit [of getting stronger]" then it really doesn't matter. Just lift and get stronger.

-S-