Old Forum PTTP and RDL

[NJBill]

I have been following a PTTP training regimen for about six weeks now. I have not done any significant strength training in years, and am truly enjoying PTTP. When I last trained it was the typical train to exhaustion, alternate body parts, etc. etc. bodybuilding style, although bodybuilding was not my actual goal, I just didn't know better.

This past week I tried some thick bar work (with Fatgripz), and liked the added work for my forearms and grip, and would like to continue with it. With it, however, my DL is significantly decreased.

I was thinking that RDL might be closer to what my grip can handle at this point and would be a better match until my grip increases enough to use with a standard DL (which is not at all heavy yet so I think my grip should catch up, at least for a while).

Would changing to RDL significantly decrease the training effect from the DL in PTTP? What press would best pair with it for a similar comprehensive program?

Thanks in advance.

- Bill

 

[Steve Freides]

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the details now.  You're lifting, which you haven't in years, and you should be able to make progress on straight PTTP for at least a few months, maybe a year or more.  Too much variety isn't good, especially when you're starting out from scratch or after a long layoff.

Floor press, bench press, overhead press - all good, specifics depend on what you're trying to accomplish.
 -S-

 

[AndyMcL]

If your deadlift isn't that heavy yet you'll probably be better served progressing on that. Soon enough the weight will be heavy enough that the normal barbell will test your grip plenty.

 

[RussellPeele]

read pavel's recent blog post regarding feats vs lifts vs exercises. Rdl is an exercise (a wonderful one, but still an exercise), while PTP is intended for lifts. Rdl just is too much of a challenge to standardize.

 

[Journeyman]

I think it could work--I used it for stiffleg RDL to help bring up a detrained deadlift the summer before last.

Didn't pavel recommend the RDL as one of many different DL variants to use in the original book?

 

[Samuel]

Well, let's start from the start: what's the goal?
Also, no reason to change the press because of changing the pull.

 

[RussellPeele]

I'll preempt by saying I LOVE RDLs. They cured my chronic hamstring injuries and took close to a full second off my 200m time. buuuut,

think about it like this... how do you know your deadlift was a good deadlift? you picked it up off the ground and locked it out. it's black and white--as you increase weight, you know you've gotten stronger.  how do you know your RDL was a good rdl? it's just too fuzzy. as you increase weight, you will subconsciously (like it or not) look for the way to get the job done in the easiest way. there's really no sure-fire way to tell for sure if you're improving--did you go down as far? maybe... did you maintain the same back, hip, and leg alignment? maybe... it's like the guy that increases his squat by 15lbs every two weeks yet loses a 1/4 in of depth for each increase. Over two months he's added 60lbs but lost 2 inches. is he stronger? no idea...

IF you use rdls in PttP format, you'll have to be an absolute technique nazi and leave even more reps in the the tank than usual, or...

Now here's a crazy idea that i've never tried and never heard advocated... if you're very, very flexible, you could do rdl's from the floor. As you creep the weight up, session after session it will get harder (no way!) and you'll instinctively begin to turn the movement into a conventional deadlift. You could roll with this--start deadlifting from there, increasing weight until your deadlift starts to get a LITTLE ugly and then cycle back to RDLs starting 10lbs heavier than your first cycle. This could be a great idea for someone who has a high sticking point in the deadlift. Counterpoint: this could mess with your deadlift groove.

 

[Journeyman]

^ I've actually done something similar to your last idea before, and I'm (kinda) doing it again now. I've been working stifflegs ONLY for a while and now I'm switching back to conventional.

It goes without saying that you have to be a form nazi if you're going to do a lift variant like that. My personal definition of an RDL is 'anything that does not touch the ground at the bottom of each rep', so I have stiffleg or bent-leg RDLs, etc. Preferably, of course, you've also done enough DLs to be able to feel what your body is doing on every rep, and preferably you're also honest enough with yourself to define progress properly based on form that way.