Barbell PTTP (Bear) or Pavel 5x5 after Break

[rambam]

Hi Folks,

I have been out of barbell training for close to 2.5 months due to travel and illness etc. Before, I was doing PTTP bear for DL and BP. I was reaching a plateau, more so with BP then DL and thought of changing things to a 5X5. I came on here and asked about 5x5 (Barbell - from PTTP Bear to Faleev 5X5 ?).

During the last 2.5 months, I stil trained. I went back to KB swings (started at 16kgs for 100 as per SnS, then progressed to 20kgs) and added to it a PTTP style pull up regimen with OH KB Press in ladders (I can do 3 strict nice pull ups with 20 kgs and I am about 170 lbs).

I am now wanting to get back into barbell training, I was wondering whether to go back into PTTP bear or do Pavel's 5x5. Also, curious about what weight to start at. I have a feeling a 2.5 months change may allow me to get through the plateau. HEre is what my weights/reps looked like 2.5 months ago:

Bench Press

Session No.	Working Set Weight	Working Set Reps	2nd Set Weight	2nd Set Reps	Extra Sets of 5 Weight	Number of Sets
1	225	5	205	5	185	4
2	225	5	205	5	185	5
3	235	5	215	5	195	5
4	235	5	215	5	195	5
5	245	5	225	5	205	3
6	245	5	225	5	205	3
7	235	5	215	5	195	5
8	235	5	215	5	195	4
9	245	5	225	5	205	3
10	245	5	225	5	205	3
11	255	4	235	5	205	3

Deadlift
Session No.	Working Set Weight	Working Set Reps	2nd Set Weight	2nd Set Reps	Extra Sets of 5 Weight	Number of Sets
1	315	5	295	5	255	6
2	315	5	295	5	255	8
3	335	5	305	5	275	4
4	335	5	305	5	275	3
5	355 (360 due to plate mess up)	5	335 (340 due to plate mess up)	5	295	2
6	365	5	335	5	295	2
7	335	5	315	5	275	3(
8	335	5	315	5	275	3
9	355	5	335	5	295	1
10	355	5	325	5	295	4
11	365	5	335	5	295	3
12	365	5	335	5	295	3

 

[Adachi]

2.5 months is a good amount of time to take off.

I don't imagine this good training has a domineering effect on exactly where you stand today. I'm sure it has some bearing, but I'm not sure it's enough to base your training on. So, my guess, off of this info, would be to start with the same beginning weights and move up in weight sooner if you're feeling confident. And that would be a guess at this point.



If you want something closer to knowing where to start, ...

I might suggest you test for a technical 10rm and start at that weight for 5s, and increase from there .

Or you could test for a T1RM and use that as a baseline to do the math for your 50-65% 1RM or whatever percentages you want to design your cycle around.

 

[rambam]

2.5 months is a good amount of time to take off.

I don't imagine this good training has a domineering effect on exactly where you stand today. I'm sure it has some bearing, but I'm not sure it's enough to base your training on. So, my guess, off of this info, would be to start with the same beginning weights and move up in weight sooner if you're feeling confident. And that would be a guess at this point.



If you want something closer to knowing where to start, ...

I might suggest you test for a technical 10rm and start at that weight for 5s, and increase from there .

Or you could test for a T1RM and use that as a baseline to do the math for your 50-65% 1RM or whatever percentages you want to design your cycle around.

Thanks, that's helpful! Won't go the T1RM route, I avoid 1RM as much as possible.

Should I go with PTTP Bear or 5x5? Does it matter much?

 

[Adachi]

Thanks, that's helpful! Won't go the T1RM route, I avoid 1RM as much as possible.

Should I go with PTTP Bear or 5x5? Does it matter much?

Depends on what you want and what you're willing to pay.

RELOAD by Fabio and Pavel is a very good framework, to guide setting up a 5x5 cycle. But it can be very intense.

The Russian Bear is load intensive but is definitely eligible for auto regulation. Frequency and volume is up to you paying attention to when it's time to cut off the session, and when you're ready to take another session.

I think in a couple years it won't matter much which you pick to start with. It will matter more that you have continued to train, and put one foot in front of the other on your journey.

 

[rambam]

Depends on what you want and what you're willing to pay.

RELOAD by Fabio and Pavel is a very good framework, to guide setting up a 5x5 cycle. But it can be very intense.

The Russian Bear is load intensive but is definitely eligible for auto regulation. Frequency and volume is up to you paying attention to when it's time to cut off the session, and when you're ready to take another session.

I think in a couple years it won't matter much which you pick to start with. It will matter more that you have continued to train, and put one foot in front of the other on your journey.

Thanks! Based on what you said I’d go for bear. But the 5x5 I was thinking of is this:

StrongFirst and the 5x5 Method | StrongFirst

The 5x5 method is credited to Reg Park, a bodybuilder who built a 500-pound bench in the 1950s. It remains one of the most reliable ways to build strength.

www.strongfirst.com

Is this different than the RELOAD?

 

[Adachi]

Thanks! Based on what you said I’d go for bear. But the 5x5 I was thinking of is this:

StrongFirst and the 5x5 Method | StrongFirst

The 5x5 method is credited to Reg Park, a bodybuilder who built a 500-pound bench in the 1950s. It remains one of the most reliable ways to build strength.

www.strongfirst.com

Is this different than the RELOAD?

This is different. All three of these are a good loading to take.

In case you're interested

Reload: Your Barbell Strength Blueprint

Shared via Kindle. Description: Where do you go next when your strength gains hit the wall?<br /><br />You learned your way around the barbell. And made quick gains as a beginner.<br /><br />Then you moved on to some reliable classic program, like 5×5...

a.co

 

[HarryBergers]

I'd probably start with pttp sans bear for a while and add bear days back in slowly. I would be cautious about volume after a couple few months.

 

[rambam]

Hi guys - an update.

First thanks a lot, all was very much taken into account. That is what transpired so far.

I did DL and BP on different days.

For DL, I started with 5x5 at 140 KGs. Was a success. Deloaded to 120 for 5X4.
Then, I felt volume at this weight felt taxing so, I switched to PTTP cub (not bear, just to be mindful of not being taxed).
I opted for a step cycle method and had consecutively for 2 sessions so far:
150x5, 140x5, 120x5, 120x5, 120x5
150x5, 140x5, 120x5, 120x5, 120x5, 120x5

So on the DL - I am happy to keep going with a step cycle.

On the BP, things are a bit different and challenging.
First session, I went for 100 KGs and had the following reps:
5, 5, 3, 2, 3
Loss of practice and mind/focus was not as ready as it used to be. Thus, the dip at the 4th set.
Noticing this, I switched to PTTP cub (1-2 strong sets of higher weight, followed by some practice reps). The problem is, instead of sticking with a step cycle, I upped a weight a bit too quickly (by mistake, intention was to stick to a step cycle). Here is the rundown (weights in KGs):
100,x5, 90x5, 80x5, 80x5, 80x5, 80x5, 80x5
105x4 (5th rep was spotted), 95x5, 85x5, 85x5, 85x5

My big question is, how should I proceed on my next BP session? SHould I just lower back to 100? Maybe do that for 2 consecutive sessions?

My non main question is that any comments/advice very appreciated as always.

 

[Adachi]

My big question is, how should I proceed on my next BP session? SHould I just lower back to 100? Maybe do that for 2 consecutive sessions?

I can't say exactly what you should do - I think a more experienced eye might offer other recommendations - but that's what I would do: retreat back to 100kg, and spend some time there.

while - across weeks or months, more volume padded my ability to work with heavier weights, across hours and days, it mitigated my ability to do more densely scheduled work, for recovery's sake. (During and between sessions.)

My non main question is that any comments/advice very appreciated as always.

I would argue that step loading is definitely not the worst way to go. I would submit that digging into the later portion of the step load, the "Under-Load" phase, might be wise in this situation. Approaching a point of "mastery" of that step load, where you are in more complete control of the bar going down and back up, is a beneficial training situation, as well. Because, then you can manipulate the bar speed for even more tension, for even more gains.

 

[rambam]

I can't say exactly what you should do - I think a more experienced eye might offer other recommendations - but that's what I would do: retreat back to 100kg, and spend some time there.

while - across weeks or months, more volume padded my ability to work with heavier weights, across hours and days, it mitigated my ability to do more densely scheduled work, for recovery's sake. (During and between sessions.)

I would argue that step loading is definitely not the worst way to go. I would submit that digging into the later portion of the step load, the "Under-Load" phase, might be wise in this situation. Approaching a point of "mastery" of that step load, where you are in more complete control of the bar going down and back up, is a beneficial training situation, as well. Because, then you can manipulate the bar speed for even more tension, for even more gains.

View attachment 22361

Nice thanks ! will see how that pans out!

 

[justinr]

My big question is, how should I proceed on my next BP session? SHould I just lower back to 100? Maybe do that for 2 consecutive sessions?

Personally, I'd drop back to 85 and use a wave cycle. So something like...

85x5, 75x5, 65x5, 65x5, 65x5
90x5, 80x5, 70x5, 70x5 70x5
95x5, 85x5, 75x5, 75x5, 75x5
100x5, 90x5, 80x5, 80x5, 80x5
-- now wave...
90x5, 80x5, 70x5, 70x5 70x5
95x5, 85x5, 75x5, 75x5, 75x5
100x5, 90x5, 80x5, 80x5, 80x5
105x5, 95x5, 85x5, 85x5, 85x5
-- if 105 was successful - wave again
95x5, 85x5, 75x5, 75x5, 75x5
100x5, 90x5, 80x5, 80x5, 80x5
105x5, 95x5, 85x5, 85x5, 85x5
110x5, 100x5, 90x5, 90x5, 90x5

Also if you could do smaller jumps, that might help with the benchpress. I know that's anti-PttP, but it is reality sometimes