Kettlebell Question about two exercises ?

[Anders]

Hi,

I was curious about the two exercises double kettlebell clean and loaded push-ups/push-ups from a deficit.

I have not really trained the double kettlebell clean as a stand-alone exercise. Has anyone done that ? What kind of benefits did you get from it ? Did you get any hypertrophy from it ? What kind of program did you do ? Axe ?

I have been doing loaded deficit push-ups for a while. I kind of like the movement and my shoulders seem to handle the stress just fine. I have read that in general doing exercises from a deficit/with a stretch will lead to more hypertrophy. I am not sure about this, but it certainly is a lot heavier than doing it from the ground. How is push-ups compared to regular kettlebell press ?


Anders

 

[Steve W.]

I have not really trained the double kettlebell clean as a stand-alone exercise. Has anyone done that ? What kind of benefits did you get from it ? Did you get any hypertrophy from it ? What kind of program did you do ? Axe ?

I love the double kettlebell clean as a standalone exercise and think it's very underrated/underutilized. It lets you overload the ballistic hinge compared to one bell drills, but without overly taxing the grip because the load is divided between hands (however, this also means both hands are working every set, so grip fatigue can still become an issue depending on the training protocol). To me, the double clean feels very natural, whereas the double swing feels very awkward. Plus, I like how the double clean lets you accumulate a lot of time zipped up in the rack position.

I've used double cleans in a variety of training protocols, including A+A (sets of 5, generous rest, 20-60+ repeats), Q&D 044 and 015 (double cleans only, a set of 10 every 3:00), and AXE (sets of 4-6 on the minute until hitting a stop sign). I have tried Q&D 033 with double cleans and pushups, but found that they didn't really play well together.

I wouldn't say the double clean by itself is a great hypertrophy drill, not much different from other KB ballistics. If hypertrophy is a main goal, double cleans, combined with grinds like double presses and/or double front squats make great combinations, such as in programs like The Giant or Dry Fighting Weight.

 

[Brett Jones]

I've done some sessions using the double clean but not enough of a program with them to comment too much but they were AXE style sessions.
Depends on the weight used and it would have a hypertrophy effect.
I use double KB in my Iron Cardio practice so not directly double clean only but a good combo of double bell work.

Pushups are a horizontal push vs. the vertical push of the KB MP so hard to correlate.

 

[John K]

Hi,

I was curious about the two exercises double kettlebell clean and loaded push-ups/push-ups from a deficit.

I have not really trained the double kettlebell clean as a stand-alone exercise. Has anyone done that ? What kind of benefits did you get from it ? Did you get any hypertrophy from it ? What kind of program did you do ? Axe ?

I love the double kettlebell clean. It used to be my favorite exercise. It is fantastic for conditioning and builds some serious forearm, bicep, and back strength/size. When I was prepping for my SFG1, I tried to do Q&D with double 32s for 10 reps. That was brutally fun. I did them more like the snatch program than the swing/pushup program. I've also done and loved the double clean for an "A&A" style workout, either 5 or 10 reps, rest until pass the talk test, and repeat. Goal is 100 reps with double 32s in 10 minutes. Yummy. GREAT results... it worked so well I stopped doing it!

My favorite introduction program for using the double clean is @Hector G 's clean program in Kettlebell Workout Snacks called The Russian Bear. I'm sure you can find the Workout Snack book on his site, it used to be free. But here is his page explaining the program:

NO-BS Grappler’s Workout Program

I have been doing loaded deficit push-ups for a while. I kind of like the movement and my shoulders seem to handle the stress just fine. I have read that in general doing exercises from a deficit/with a stretch will lead to more hypertrophy. I am not sure about this, but it certainly is a lot heavier than doing it from the ground. How is push-ups compared to regular kettlebell press ?

Totally different, like Brett said. Stretch is great for hypertrophy, if the load is sufficient (5-30 reps, and think for pushups you need to be pretty close to failure each set). I've never seen good hypertrophy from pushups. It is too hard to get the rep-load right I think. Doing a lot of high rep sets of pushups just seems to get me marginally better at pushups, and doing weighted pushups never seems to be something that works for me for long enough to see if I won the Hyper Trophy. Usually because it is too inconvenient to do for long. If you want to get bigger and stronger, I'd definitely go kettlebell press over pushups. Or bench press if you're after an eye-popping chest.

 

[bluejeff]

I can't speak for double cleans, but I have gotten hypertrophy from pushups in the past. It's all about the load and dosage, just like any other exercise. If the load is too low, and you are just doing a lot of reps, you might not see as much change. If the load is really high, and you are dong low reps, then you will have to do a lot more sets to see hypertrophy.

Hypertrophy, in my experience = high tension + volume

The way I see it, if you want hypertrophy from loaded, deficit pushups, then get some kind of setup that allows you to change the amount of added weight you are using, and treat it like any other hypertrophy program. You can use a RoP template, a fighter pull up template.....

I prefer pike pushups and handstand pushups for personal reasons. My best upper body hypertrophy has come from doing deficit pike pushups with the figher pullup template, and from greasing the groove with handstand pushups (averaging ~25 reps a day, done in sets of 3-5, for 4-5 days per week). In either case, the load was moderate to high, and the weekly volume was pretty high.

 

[Anders]

I can't speak for double cleans, but I have gotten hypertrophy from pushups in the past. It's all about the load and dosage, just like any other exercise. If the load is too low, and you are just doing a lot of reps, you might not see as much change. If the load is really high, and you are dong low reps, then you will have to do a lot more sets to see hypertrophy.

Hypertrophy, in my experience = high tension + volume

The way I see it, if you want hypertrophy from loaded, deficit pushups, then get some kind of setup that allows you to change the amount of added weight you are using, and treat it like any other hypertrophy program. You can use a RoP template, a fighter pull up template.....

I prefer pike pushups and handstand pushups for personal reasons. My best upper body hypertrophy has come from doing deficit pike pushups with the figher pullup template, and from greasing the groove with handstand pushups (averaging ~25 reps a day, done in sets of 3-5, for 4-5 days per week). In either case, the load was moderate to high, and the weekly volume was pretty high.

I was thinking about following Fabio´s Victorious program or a similar hypertrophy program.

Pike push-up is a great exercise I often do, but I find that they demand quite a lot of mobility of my hamstrings. It is also quite easy to cheat on them.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Alan Mackey]

I have not really trained the double kettlebell clean as a stand-alone exercise. Has anyone done that ? What kind of benefits did you get from it ? Did you get any hypertrophy from it ? What kind of program did you do ? Axe ?

DBKBCL has been my go-to hinging lift for a loooong time.

I don't like KB snatches (barbell ones are fine) and swings are okay, but way overrated in my opinion. So clean it is.

You can go really heavy and, since you can rest with the bells racked, you can also go looooong. The entire posterior chain, shoulders and biceps get hit hard.

What's not to like?

 

[Luis T. Gonzalez]

I like the double clean but my thought is while I have them in the rack, I might as well do something with them like front squat, press, jerk, push press. The other day I did (5,3,2) ladders with double press to front squat. Try getting in five clean and presses followed by five front squats without setting the bells down, and you will feel like your body will explode.

 

[Halfakneecap]

I have thought about a double clean only program for a while ( Russian bear looks good).

Recently got back into KB swings and quickly worked up to 40kg 2H swings. Was happy with how fast I got up to a decent weight, but then I realised I can C&P and FSQ my 28’s, so swinging a 40 isn’t that much of a stretch.

I think Giant 3.0 would work well with heavy double cleans

 

[Halfakneecap]

I like the double clean but my thought is while I have them in the rack, I might as well do something with them like front squat, press, jerk, push press. The other day I did (5,3,2) ladders with double press to front squat. Try getting in five clean and presses followed by five front squats without setting the bells down, and you will feel like your body will explode.

I agree, I recently started adding front squats to C&P. I’m now only doing strength once a week, so do low reps of C&P&FSQ ( 2 x C&P then without putting bells down 2 x FSQ )**. I’m getting more sets in each week, and think it’s a great combo. Also allows me to do swings 3x a week, so very efficient

I would like to just do a month of straight DBLCLN though

** running them as a chain ( 1 C&P&FSQ then another C&P&FSQ) is brutal

 

[Luis T. Gonzalez]

I would like to just do a month of straight DBLCLN though

I’ve wanted to do that for a while too just haven’t committed to it. I used to have a bad habit of keeping my elbows bent on the down swing of the clean so I worked on setting them down by the back of my foot until I got rid of that habit. For now, I’m personally more interested in double lccj. You get the benefit of the clean and going overhead plus some serious conditioning.

 

[marlowe]

Any weight I can't snatch, I swing. Any weight I can't swing, I clean. I clean 2x32kg because I can't swing'em, and it's a pretty good workout.