Running program?

[LukeV]

In the event of a catastrophe, we could all get 20 kilometres away, even our grandparents provided they're not bedridden. Actually, probably more like 50 kilometres and more if we had to. So why do we think we can't "run", say, five kilometres? Only pacing ourselves is the issue, the distance isn't actually the concern. We try and go too fast, to push ourselves too much, then we get tired and give up, which I think is a human frailty. Anyone who wants to run can start by walking. Do that a few times and you'll get there quicker. Shuffle and you'll get there quicker still and some of the greatest runners of all time have shuffled themselves hundreds of kilometres

 

[John K]

My secret is swings and snatches. I’m not a runner but I know tomorrow if I woke up and was told to run a 5k I’d complete it, wrestle and hour, go home make dinner, and be ready to do some lifting. There is a lot of value in kb ballistics. Now if you are talking about competitive 5k running then you will probably need to work a little more specifically for that. The best way to know is to sign up for a 5k.

In the event of a catastrophe, we could all get 20 kilometres away, even our grandparents provided they're not bedridden. Actually, probably more like 50 kilometres and more if we had to. So why do we think we can't "run", say, five kilometres? Only pacing ourselves is the issue, the distance isn't actually the concern. We try and go too fast, to push ourselves too much, then we get tired and give up, which I think is a human frailty. Anyone who wants to run can start by walking. Do that a few times and you'll get there quicker. Shuffle and you'll get there quicker still and some of the greatest runners of all time have shuffled themselves hundreds of kilometres

I think both of these views are silly.

First, if someone wants to be competent at something - they should practice it. If someone wanted to pass the snatch test and asked for a plan, we wouldn't tell them they didn't need one.

Then, most people today need "couch to 5k" programs to prevent running injuries, which are all too common. Same with building up distances with something like rucking or hiking.

Finally, most people do not "rise to the occasion." I have seen that NOT happen in multiple areas - fitness events, medical situations, firearm related incidents, fighting, as well as search and rescue (including land nav). More often than not, they "default" to the level of their training. The more competent they are - the better. I have seen too many people think they'll just "be able to" or "figure it out" or "make it" and then end up in a sticky situation.

That's my cranky take for the day.

 

[nickster]

+1 for Hal Higdon if you are a person who likes lots of detail. His freely available plans are basically entirely 2-5 month calendars planned out to the day.

Also +1 for Phil Mafetone if you want to try heart rate based training with a focus more on health than on for many seconds you can shave off your 5k pace. In a sentence, he says:
Take 180, minus your age, and run at that heart rate.

So, 180-40 yrs old = run at 140 heart rate or less. Importantly, it is not run at an average of 140 with a high of 165 and low of 115. It is run at no higher than 140.
Takes some practice and feels slow from the start. For me, it did help me get to being comfortable covering 10+ miles without aches or pains after.

 

[Gman10]

Lots of great replies here. Way more feedback than I anticipated getting. Thank you guys.

 

[Luis T. Gonzalez]

I think both of these views are silly.

First, if someone wants to be competent at something - they should practice it. If someone wanted to pass the snatch test and asked for a plan, we wouldn't tell them they didn't need one.

Then, most people today need "couch to 5k" programs to prevent running injuries, which are all too common. Same with building up distances with something like rucking or hiking.

Finally, most people do not "rise to the occasion." I have seen that NOT happen in multiple areas - fitness events, medical situations, firearm related incidents, fighting, as well as search and rescue (including land nav). More often than not, they "default" to the level of their training. The more competent they are - the better. I have seen too many people think they'll just "be able to" or "figure it out" or "make it" and then end up in a sticky situation.

That's my cranky take for the day.

I agree with you. I wasn’t saying that someone doesn’t need a program for running. What I was saying was the WTH effects of swings and snatches go pretty far. Even in simple and sinister there is a recommendation to do the simple and sinister program for a while and it’s suggested to go run a 10k, help a friend move, shovel snow for the entire neighborhood. Yes you need a running program and some coaching. But is the average person going to even hire a coach? Or even actual follow the program? My point was swings will give you a lot.

 

[Adachi]

I wasn’t saying that someone doesn’t need a program for running. What I was saying was the WTH effects of swings and snatches go pretty far.

Verily the effects I get from long cycle with a light bell has a lot of overlap with direct cardio training as well.

I've yet to dig into swings and snatches in a
Cardio equivalency plan, but I've sampled the protocols that have you with a very light bell, high frequency sets with low reps.

It's not exactly the same. But it is very very similar.

 

[John K]

What I was saying was the WTH effects of swings and snatches go pretty far.

I would encourage you to test this and run a hard 10K tomorrow. Report back - how are your knees, your calves and shins, your feet, your back, your time and intensity, etc. Would these have been better if you had trained for it? Or is "gutting through it" yelling "but who's going to carry the boats?!" sufficient for you?

But is the average person going to even hire a coach? Or even actual follow the program? My point was swings will give you a lot.

Again, sorry, but I can't agree with this take. The same criticism is equally valid for a kettlebell program, and so seems to have no bearing on whether or not to recommend a running program when asked for one.

 

[Luis T. Gonzalez]

I would encourage you to test this and run a hard 10K tomorrow. Report back - how are your knees, your calves and shins, your feet, your back, your time and intensity, etc. Would these have been better if you had trained for it? Or is "gutting through it" yelling "but who's going to carry the boats?!" sufficient for you?

Again, sorry, but I can't agree with this take. The same criticism is equally valid for a kettlebell program, and so seems to have no bearing on whether or not to recommend a running program when asked for one.

It appears that I will be carrying the boats.

 

[Wullie]

Walking for distance ,and progressing to carrying weight ( Rucking) has always made running seem easier…. The C25K plan has helped many to achieve a thirty minute “trott” …

 

[John K]

It appears that I will be carrying the boats.

It clearly works for some people.

 

[AJL]

I was always a terrible runner, but about 5 years ago I got bitten by the running bug and worked my way up to running 160k per month. It’s much, much easier than you’d think!

The secret is to slow down. If you’ll take an analogy, most running advice as applied to S&S would be to “swing the 70 as hard as you can until you get used to it.” Utter foolishness. There’s a reason Pavel recommends all but the strongest men start with a 16kg bell. You should run until you’ve learned jog.

Get yourself a heart rate monitor and jog — JOG — a few minutes at a time. When your heart rate hits 140, walk until it is 120. Then jog again. Try running 3-4K at a time at the beginning.

Soon that will be easy. Then jog 5k. Heart rate never over 140. When you can jog 5k without your HR going over 140, you’re done the beginner stage.

Then run three times a week: two 5k runs with your hr never going over 140, and one longer run, done on a day when you can spend more time. Each week add 1/2 km until you can jog 10k straight, Hr never over 140.

Stay doing that (10km once a week plus 5k twice a week) for an extended period of time. Do kbs twice a week, AXE swings preferably. In a year you’ll be absolutely floored how easy it is. And I know, because I’ve done it!

 

[silveraw]

It's not exactly the same. But it is very very similar.

I’ve learned and learned again through repeated experiments that cardio is actually specific.

 

[offwidth]

Get yourself a heart rate monitor and jog — JOG — a few minutes at a time. When your heart rate hits 140, walk until it is 120. Then jog again. Try running 3-4K at a time at the beginning.

Soon that will be easy. Then jog 5k. Heart rate never over 140. When you can jog 5k without your HR going over 140, you’re done the beginner stage.

Then run three times a week: two 5k runs with your hr never going over 140, and one longer run, done on a day when you can spend more time. Each week add 1/2 km until you can jog 10k straight, Hr never over 140.

This advice is good with the exception of the HR numbers.
HR zone based training is fine, but the target numbers are highly individualistic. Age, fitness, and other variables factor considerably.
It’s better when discussing this to base targets around AeT and AnT, (For a given individual this could well be 120 and 140 respectively) rather than just putting numbers out there.

My AeT and AnT are likely to be very different from yours…

 

[AJL]

This advice is good with the exception of the HR numbers.
HR zone based training is fine, but the target numbers are highly individualistic. Age, fitness, and other variables factor considerably.
It’s better when discussing this to base targets around AeT and AnT, (For a given individual this could well be 120 and 140 respectively) rather than just putting numbers out there.

My AeT and AnT are likely to be very different from yours…

Maybe so, but at some point you’ve got to stop splitting hairs.

For what it’s worth, I got the 140 from a Rich Roll book. I didn’t second guess it or do extra hours of research or testing. Maybe my numbers would be 143 and 119. But I don’t think that’s important. It’s better for OP to just take those numbers and that concept and make something happen. After all, this is someone hoping to work their way up to 5k: a high level of specificity isn’t really required, IMO, unless he is in his 60s or teens, and even then these numbers wouldn’t need to change much.

Your mileage may vary. (See what I did there? lol)

 

[offwidth]

You may be right. I’m still relatively new to this running business myself…

 

[steve-in-kville]

I started walking everyday. Back then I worked nights, so I'd get home around 10am and walk around the block. Later, I started commuting to work by bike and did a few 5k runs every year. Life got in the way and now I'm doing walks plus weighted rucking most days. Would love to do a 5k this year, but the pandemic did away with the ones I enjoyed.