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Old Forum SFG snatch test prep help

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guacadoggie

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I just read the SFG email that says the strength test has been changed from two bells to one for the C&P and the swing. I was extremely close to have the double press requirements for the cert (I'm going to the one March 13-15). However, my only issue is my grip / forearms for the snatch test. I realize I'm not the first person concerned with the snatch test... I met with an SFG prior to deciding to do the SFG cert, and he didn't see any issue with me moving forward in such a short time-frame (7 weeks at that point).

Would it be wise of me to modify my program to focus a little more on the grip aspect and less on the double press? I'm currently in my 4th week using Brett Jones' SFG Prep program.

Recent numbers are as follows:

Week 2: Sunday / SFG Prep Day 3: 15 minutes of snatches @ 24kg x 5+5 x 15= 150

Week 3: Sunday / SFG Prep Day 3: 14 minutes of snatches @ 24kg x 6+6 x 13= 156

Week 3: Tuesday / Snatch Prep Day 1:  10 minutes of 2-handed swings @ 32kg x 20, 20, 17, 17, 17, 17, 17, 13, 11, 13= 162 swings

Week 3: Wednesday / Snatch Prep Day 2:  15 minutes of snatches @ 16kg x 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 12, 12, 12, 12, 5, 5= 208

If anyone has suggestions on modification, your thoughts would be very much appreciated! Or maybe my progress is plenty adequate enough (that would be ideal). Thanks in advance.
 
Arryn,

 

#1 Have you had your snatch technique evaluated?  I worked with someone prepping for his snatch test the other day who said he had the same problem as you.  Within a one hour lesson we cleaned up his form to the point where we were doing multiple sets of 10 per hand comfortably, compared to only being able to get 5 shaky reps per hand when he came in.

 

#2 Even though you're not at the 20 RPM @ 32 kg yet for two handed swings, maybe consider throwing in a few sets of one handed swings at 32 kg here and there.  I know for me, and many other SFG's that heavy  one handed swings do wonders for training the snatch.
 
Tony, thanks for the reply!

I went to an SFG right before I started this program and, while he only watched me do a few reps, he said my only issue was not exhaling at the same place I would a swing. I have since corrected this issue and now practice double breathing, as explained in a blog post on here. I do feel, however, that my form is not perfect, but not too off, though. I notice that after around 80 or so snatches, the front of my deltoids are starting to become fatigued.

I made it to the Simple goal in S&S months ago and have since been using only the 32kg to swing with, until this program. I considered mixing in single-arm swings before I made it to 20 RPM, but I wanted to follow his program exactly...
 
Arryn,

I've had great success with this program:

<a title="Ken Froese snatch article" href="http://www.dragondoor.com/articles/how-to-pass-the-current-rkc-snatch-test/">http://www.dragondoor.com/articles/how-to-pass-the-current-rkc-snatch-test/</a>

Basically, you do two sets on each arm, but you do both sets on the SAME arm before training the other arm. I rest one minute between sets on the same arm, as recommended in the article, but use no rest when switching arms.

One modification I made to the program is to do it twice each session, once with 28kg and then with 24kg, with no rest in between. I found that working with the heavier bell made a HUGE difference in my capacity with the 24. For me, the 28 hit a sweet spot where I could do a reasonable amount of volume, but still got a significant overload. With the 32 I was limited to much shorter sets, and wasn't worth the extra wear and tear on my hands.

Since the program is based on a percentage of a max rep test on each arm, I was conservative in setting my max for the purposes of calculating the training load, to account for the fact that I was already fatigued from the 28 before starting with the 24.

I also did a 100 rep test once a week, at a moderately high, but not all out effort, not putting the bell down at all. This was really valuable for getting comfortable with pacing and overall confidence.

I eventually worked up to doing the test with the rep breakdown recommended in the article: 20/20, 15/15, 10/10/10. This was psychologically very easy, since after 3 hand switches, I was already at 70 reps, and I could start and finish with my strong hand. I also find it psychologically easier to minimize hand switches and not put the bell down, so I could be more relaxed and not worry about time being a factor. I could knock out the 100 reps in a little over 4 minutes and be done.

Some guys prefer to just go with straight sets of 10, take closer to the full 5 minutes, and think trying to minimize hand switches or finish faster is just making things harder than necessary. But I personally prefer switching hands as few times as necessary without overly fatiguing my grip. Doing regular practice tests will help you figure out the easiest approach for you.

You mentioned that you tend to get fatigued in the front delts. I can think of three possible reasons for this:

One is starting your hip drive too soon. If you try to reverse the bell out of the hole too soon, before it has finished traveling fully backward, you put a lot more strain on your shoulder and grip to brake the backward momentum of the bell before it starts moving forward. You also lose a lot of the power of your hip drive because you are driving the hips forward when the bell is still going back, instead of putting all of your hip power into driving the bell forward. Make sure you are really finishing your backswing, right to the point where the bell would start to pendulum forward passively, before you initiate your forward hip drive.

Two is pulling with your arm, instead of relying on hip drive. "Hips drive; arm guides."

Three is a lack of shoulder and T-spine mobility (and even tight hip flexors), such that you have to rely more on muscle power to hold the lockout position, rather than skeletal alignment. The fatigue from this can really build up and become significant when doing higher reps. A little flexibility/mobility work in this area can have a big payoff in performance.

There are a lot of subtle form tweaks that can make a big difference in efficiency. Doing the Viking Warrior Conditioning 15:15 program and working up to 80 x 8 with 16kg, was very valuable in helping dial in my form, but I wouldn't really recommend this for your time frame.

Hope this helps.

 
 
If your delts are getting fatigued, it means you are muscling the snatch. Can you be oh so kind to upload a video for us to evaluate?
 
Steve, thank you very much for the detailed response. I had an FMS performed just a few weeks ago and shoulder issues were non-existent. I think I may indeed be muscling part of it up and maybe too soon on the hip drive before the back-swing is finished. I have my long snatch practice today, so I'll work on it.

Mark, thank you for commenting. Below is a video from a few days ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woS6jrKzMkY
 
was that with a 24kg or 32kg? they appear to be rogue bells but can't tell the stripe color. Almost appears white which I believe is a 40kg but I didn't figure that was right.
 
Arryn, a few tips based on the vid:

1. keep the path of the bell close to the body on the way up and down

 

2. Snap the hip harder to male the bell float to lockout.

 

3. Exhale at hip snap then you can do a quick inhale then exhale at lockout..

 

Hope this helps... you'll do great when your weekend rolls around
 
Travis, that's a Rogue 24kg.

Mark, so I need to tame the arc, I assume. I notice that I treat it as almost a full swing, then convert to a snatch. Probably why my delts feel it... I'll work on all these in a few hours. Thank you so much!
 
Arryn,

Your overall form looks good, so now it's a matter of fine tuning, which can still make a big difference in efficiency and performance. It looks a bit like the "bell is snatching you", rather than you snatching the bell. This is just a matter of getting your form more dialed in so you are confident in your groove, and more efficient in hitting the rhythm and timing of turning the tension on and off exactly when needed.

A couple of things I notice:

As Mark pointed out, the bell path is pretty far out from your body. In my experience, there will be some individual variation in bell path. Some people use a more swing-like arc, and some keep the bell close to the body all the way up. You are using more of the former style, which isn't necessarily a problem in itself.

However, you are not guiding the bell backward early enough (the "starting a lawnmower", high pull motion). Therefore, when you start to punch up under the bell, it is still way out in front, so you are catching the bell in front of you and have to bring it BACK into the lockout after the catch, instead of being able to punch straight UP into the lockout.  This probably is contributing to the delt fatigue you are experiencing.

On the drop, you are dropping the bell forward "over a barrel" instead of pulling it down.

To experiment with a more vertical bell path, it may help to think of the snatch less in terms of the swing and more in terms of the clean. In the clean, you keep your elbow in and your upper arm connected to your body. The elbow acts as more of a pivot point than the shoulder. This is a cue I use a lot myself. On the drop, I focus on getting my elbow in to my body, almost like dropping the bell "through" the rack in one fluid motion. This ensures that my arm is connected to my body so I can absorb the downswing with my hips, and not have the bell yank on my shoulder. It also allows for less of an abrupt strain on the grip. Then on the upswing, I think of cleaning to an "overhead rack" rather than swinging the bell out to the front.

Again, there is some individual variation to this, so you have to experiment to find the groove that works best for you.

Hope this helps.

 

 
 
This definitely helps me!  Thanks for all the great insights, Steve and Mark.  I can "do" the snatch (and close to the required standard for cert) but I'm a long way from mastering it.

Arryn, keep up the good work...
 
Steve, thank you. That's a lot to think about and try today. But it definitely sounds like valuable tips. And if it's less fatiguing of the grip, I'm very interested in giving it a try! I'll report back after I've gone through a practice or two.

Anna, thanks!
 
To add to the above, your long, distant arc is also throwing off your insertion and lockout. Your delts are getting tired because at the top, your bones don't line up, and the weight never actually gets over your shoulder- there is no momentary relaxation, and your delts are basically suspending the weight in the air in an exaggerated "zeig heil" type movement. An arc closer to the body will get the bell more vertical, which means that the insertion should get the weight suspended over your shoulder, in a position of actual relaxation.
 
Seneca, I'll work on making my arm more vertical next practice. Thank you very much for your input.

Here's yesterday's snatch practice. Does it look any better? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc6H8HjRfko

I hardly even noticed my delts yesterday. My grip was fatigued by the end and so was my breath.

Also, do you guys think it would be beneficial to GTG some 28kg snatches while I'm at work? Or would this be too conflicting with the program?
 
That path is much more vertical, and it would be possible for you to rest in the overhead with the technique you're using here.

You're using an acceleration pull in some of those reps, which is good from an efficiency standpoint, but I'm not sure if it would be frowned on for technique demonstration purposes at the cert

(The acceleration pull is the retraction of the shoulder that's snatching, basically a torso movement that pulls the bell into a more vertical flight path as it rises, and makes the window for insertion easier. I'm not sure if it's a no-no in SFG, because it will tend to be easier if you're shifting weight, and my impression is that the testing standard will want you to have even weighting throghout the entire lift)

 

Someone who's been to the cert shine more light on that?
 
Much improved. Don't grip the bell hard on the downswing.. Also, try to time your inhale on the downswing right before the bell passes your thighs...

 

Keep up the good work
 
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