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Programming Improv Talk test personal experiences requested

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HarryBergers

HarryBergers

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I've been doing IC this week and I'm really liking the feeling of a reasonably elevated heart rate during training. It almost feels like it is fueling me and the activity feels like it gets easier over time. I've also not been this hungry all day for quite a while now.

I've read both S&S versions of the talk test. I've seen a lot of youtube videos about the talk test, a lot of folks claim they developed it btw.. But, nobody has really gone over what level of comfort level, or diaphragmic pressure, or even the CO2 panic response or really anything feeling related at all. I've only seen one guy use it to gauge trainees' intensity levels. Everything above low intensity seems like it would fail the test.

My impression from the reading is that I want to easily be able to say a sentence without it feeling rushed or that I need to gasp for air right after I'm done my test sentence.

Am I close to the ballpark here? If my sentence feels easy, or if I don't feel like I need to hasten my breathing I lift again. If I feel like I'm starting to get a CO2 buildup during my sentence I'll make sure I can exhale a couple times slowly, nasally, and it seems like that is good? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Other than feeling lactic acid usage in my chest, how would I know I'm pushing too hard?

What queues do you look for when training with talk test timing?
 
I ask myself "Can I speak comfortably without gasping for breath when I finish talking ?" the "talking" can be a verse from a favourite poem or song or a random page from a book. Its a qualitative rather than a quantitative test - I just assess am I comfortable ? Am I breathing too heavy ?

If you are not confident about the qualitative nature of the test you could put a chest strap on and restart your exercise when your HR falls below XX with XX being a different number for different people.

You could do experiments to find threshold ranges ie you might be able to put together something like this - the numbers will be very different for different people
above 125 = talk with difficulty
115-125 = can talk but cannot sing
below 115 = can sing comfortably

Just did some googling another semi quantitative way is to count LINK here

Option 2: How High Can You Count​

  • Before you start your workout, count as high as you can as you exhale
  • During your workout, count again during your exhale and compare those numbers. If the number counted during exercise drops to about 70%, you're working at or above Level 5.
or here Validity of the counting talk test in comparison with standard methods of estimating exercise intensity in young healthy adults - PubMed

Side Note : When we had covid a few months ago we had to phone the hospital every day and record ourselves counting to 30 with one breath, they used this simple test to help assess how badly affected we were. (Victoria, Australia)
 
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HarryBergers said:
I've been doing IC this week and I'm really liking the feeling of a reasonably elevated heart rate during training. It almost feels like it is fueling me and the activity feels like it gets easier over time. I've also not been this hungry all day for quite a while now.

I've read both S&S versions of the talk test. I've seen a lot of youtube videos about the talk test, a lot of folks claim they developed it btw.. But, nobody has really gone over what level of comfort level, or diaphragmic pressure, or even the CO2 panic response or really anything feeling related at all. I've only seen one guy use it to gauge trainees' intensity levels. Everything above low intensity seems like it would fail the test.

My impression from the reading is that I want to easily be able to say a sentence without it feeling rushed or that I need to gasp for air right after I'm done my test sentence.

Am I close to the ballpark here? If my sentence feels easy, or if I don't feel like I need to hasten my breathing I lift again. If I feel like I'm starting to get a CO2 buildup during my sentence I'll make sure I can exhale a couple times slowly, nasally, and it seems like that is good? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Other than feeling lactic acid usage in my chest, how would I know I'm pushing too hard?

What queues do you look for when training with talk test timing?
Click to expand...
For me, a little more understanding of breathing helped.

As we start doing activity, we start breathing deeper - we take bigger breaths - but how quickly we breath doesn't change. Then, if we continue to push ourselves, we reach a point where we are not breathing any deeper, but we now start breathing more often. Then, if we continue to push ourselves, we reach a point where we are breathing as often as we can but the rate no longer increases.

The first point (where we can no longer breath deeper and start to increase our rate of breathing) is called Ventilatory Threshold 1, or VT1. Below this is where we can pass the talk test.

The second point (where can can no longer increase our rate of breathing) is called Ventilatory Threshold 2, or VT2.

I found understanding this helped me understand what my breathing was doing and helped me start identifying when I was above or below VT1.

Practically, being able to say a 12-14 word phrase without needing to interrupt it is one sign, but so is being able to talk without "abnormal" breathing pauses.

When I'm working with people, in between sets I watch their breathing and how they talk. When they are gulping air with an open mouth, not ready. When they now close their mouth and are breathing "normal," they are likely ready.

A lot of people go by nasal breathing ("if you can nasal breath you can pass the talk test"); my problem with that is I have learned to nasal breath well above that VT1 point so that doesn't always reflect my breathing; and that often due to allergies or colds or something else folks breath inconsitently through their nose.
 
Don Fairbanks said:
Hard to say Harry. :)
Click to expand...
True. The IC guidance is to err on the side of more rest. And pretty much anybody can say "I can talk short" within 10-20 seconds after a set of medium/light IC with minimal willpower, which is why I'm asking for anecdotal feedback, because I have to go off of what it feels like as I'm used to setting a timer.

I've been relistening to that jre. I need to learn plan strong..
 
HarryBergers said:
Everything above low intensity seems like it would fail the test.
Click to expand...
I can't speak for "iron cardio", but in a conventional endurance training context, yes, that's the whole point.

John K said:
For me, a little more understanding of breathing helped.
Click to expand...
Good post. I'll add two things that have helped me:
-paying attention to how my breathing feels at rest and trying to make sure it feels pretty much the same as I slowly work up to training pace. As you note, perhaps a bit deeper, but no faster or more labored. No "air hunger".
-breathing rhythms while running. inhale 4 footfalls, exhale 4 or inhale 4, exhale 6. Of course, assuming a reasonably consistent cadence, this is just a low-tech way to continuously monitor respiratory rate. Specific numbers will vary but I don't suppose there's any reason a guy couldn't do this with any low-load cyclic activity.
 
HarryBergers said:
True. The IC guidance is to err on the side of more rest. And pretty much anybody can say "I can talk short" within 10-20 seconds after a set of medium/light IC with minimal willpower, which is why I'm asking for anecdotal feedback, because I have to go off of what it feels like as I'm used to setting a timer.

I've been relistening to that jre. I need to learn plan strong..
Click to expand...
And StrongEndurance, I don't know if they still offer Second Wind express. @Brett Jones ?

www.strongfirst.com

Emergency recovery breathing | StrongFirst

The following technique is an adaptation of fractional breathing originally developed for very fast running. This remarkable technique was documented to reduce the blood lactate levels of elite mid-distance runners by 25-50% without any loss of speed. Later it was modified to be used for...
www.strongfirst.com

 
A few weeks back, Traveling Two's, c-p-sq -sn, on the :30 with a 24, 60 rounds, 29:40, with the above breathing and the Jordan Position, on and off. Helps
 
HarryBergers said:
True. The IC guidance is to err on the side of more rest. And pretty much anybody can say "I can talk short" within 10-20 seconds after a set of medium/light IC with minimal willpower, which is why I'm asking for anecdotal feedback, because I have to go off of what it feels like as I'm used to setting a timer.

I've been relistening to that jre. I need to learn plan strong..
Click to expand...
I can relate to your questions. In classic A+A (and S&S) you want to err on the side of caution and be able to talk medium length sentences with a sense of calm. I think this is more important during higher volume sessions. Your breathing should be without any urgency, IMO.

For timed A+A (like KB-SF) I would think that shorter sentences should be fine, too ("I am able to talk again", "Next set, here we go", ...).
 
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