Other/Mixed The Hip Hinge in Rowing

[watchnerd]

Ever wondered if there was a sport with a high degree of transferability with the hip hinge skills you've learned from KB swings, deadlifts, or cleans?

You might not know this, but hip hinging is incredibly critical to becoming a good rower.

Why?

As part of the recovery after the stroke, hip hinging forward, before engaging in knee flexion, stretches the hamstrings, so that when. you slide forward with knee flexion, you feel your hamstrings loaded.

As you increase knee flexion into the catch, the hamstring tension lessens a bit, but then you really feel that loading move into your butt and quads.

The feeling for me is very similar to a "dynamic start" on a clean, snatch, or deadlift.

Learning how to manage this energy system, and translate it into power production, is a critical element to becoming a good rower and why serious rowers practice hip hinge exercises (in addition to squats) on their strength training days.

Some suggested basic hip hinge exercises for rowers:

• DL
• RDL
• KB swings

More detail in this article:

Mastering the Hip Hinge for Rowing - Rowing Stronger

The hip hinge for rowing is a fundamental athletic skill to improve rowing performance and reduce risk of injury. Here's how to learn, train, and build it!

rowingstronger.com

Right now, with regatta season coming up, I'm rowing 3 days a week (2 water, 1 erg, weather permitting) and doing strength training 2 days a week.

Weekly lower body strength training consists of:

Tues:
FSQ
Snatch DL

Sat:
Power Clean
Bulgarian Split Squats or Walking Lunges (weather permitting)

So if you want to try a sport that leverages all that hip hinging you've learned, try rowing.

Questions welcome, AMA.

 

[JPCross]

Awesome stuff! Anecdotally, n=1, my rowing performance is better when I am doing A&A style heavy 2-handed swings as well as walking lunges on a consistent basis.

 

[watchnerd]

Awesome stuff! Anecdotally, n=1, my rowing performance is better when I am doing A&A style heavy 2-handed swings as well as walking lunges on a consistent basis.

Awesome.

I debate sometimes if I get more out of ballistic hip hinges (KB swings, power cleans) or grinds / DLs, so I end up doing both.

And, yes, walking lunges really help on the drive.

Cyclist squats are good, too.

 

[Chris Mills]

Right now, with regatta season coming up

Which regattas? I'll be at southwest regionals near San Diego in about 3-weeks.

This is an interesting topic for me, to say the least. I took up (or rather, tried out, I suppose) on-the-water rowing for the first time roughly 1.5 years ago (after having discovered that I was RELATIVELY good at erging at a Crossfit gym a few years ago; and trying to find a better way to nurse golfers elbow than 12-ounce curls while watching baseball) and have been training with a local club 3-4 days per week ever since (2-3 days on the water; I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area so climate allows for year-round access to the water, wind-storms not withstanding; and another 1-3 days on the erg; 1-2 of which are generally in my garage).

Some observations:

OTW rowing is, on the surface (no pun intended), not a very efficient training tool (I'm a 20-minute drive from the boathouse; and the actual time on-the water is a hair over half of the roughly 2-hours I'm AT the boathouse; and between the warming up and drill work, usually the only part of the session that I'd call "a work-out" lasts roughly 30-minutes).

On the other hand, rowing is a team activity (I'm mostly in 8's) and once you've committed to showing up the next morning (the default is "I'm in" and you have to proactively opt out by about 6pm when the coach makes the lineup), you pretty much HAVE to show up. There's no "yeah, maybe tomorrow" when the 4:30 alarm rings. It has definitely kept me doing SOMETHING.

I haven't had time or recovery capabilities to do much of anything else, but I've just in the past month or so started to back off all of the at-home erging and work in regular pull-ups and BB front squats and cleans and presses (was kind of shocking how far my front squat had fallen).

The golfers elbow is pretty-much gone.

 

[Chris Mills]

one more add to the above. the erg sessions with the group are much more highly motivating than just about anything else I've done in many years. The scores are the scores, and all the other dudes can see them. There's no hiding.

 

[offwidth]

one more add to the above. the erg sessions with the group are much more highly motivating than just about anything else I've done in many years. The scores are the scores, and all the other dudes can see them. There's no hiding.

Not really germane to the conversation but erg related nonetheless… Twight used to have two people row against each other. The C2’s were placed facing each other, but they swapped the screens, so that you could only see the other guys screen. They were given ‘X’ number of minutes to row, the ‘winner’ being the guy who rowed the greater distance.

 

[JPCross]

Awesome.

I debate sometimes if I get more out of ballistic hip hinges (KB swings, power cleans) or grinds / DLs, so I end up doing both.

And, yes, walking lunges really help on the drive.

Cyclist squats are good, too.

I used to exclusively "grind", especially for posterior chain stuff - deadlifts, weighted pullups, etc.

I have since changed out a lot in my garage gym and no longer have a barbell and plates, rather KB's up to 56kg plus my weight vest and some other goodies like an ab wheel, pullup bar, dip stand, and C2.

I have pretty well exclusively trained hip hinging through ballistics (KB swings) and some running/sprinting; I will do other grind work (pullups, pushups, dips, ab wheel, lunges) and I have maintained about 85% of max strength. I will periodically test a 1RM deadlift (1-2x a year) and it hasn't really fallen off over the last few years as long as I'm consistent on the other stuff.

I feel much better, feel more "explosive", and am more well rounded in other aspects of fitness.

 

[watchnerd]

Which regattas? I'll be at southwest regionals near San Diego in about 3-weeks.

This is an interesting topic for me, to say the least. I took up (or rather, tried out, I suppose) on-the-water rowing for the first time roughly 1.5 years ago (after having discovered that I was RELATIVELY good at erging at a Crossfit gym a few years ago; and trying to find a better way to nurse golfers elbow than 12-ounce curls while watching baseball) and have been training with a local club 3-4 days per week ever since (2-3 days on the water; I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area so climate allows for year-round access to the water, wind-storms not withstanding; and another 1-3 days on the erg; 1-2 of which are generally in my garage).

Some observations:

OTW rowing is, on the surface (no pun intended), not a very efficient training tool (I'm a 20-minute drive from the boathouse; and the actual time on-the water is a hair over half of the roughly 2-hours I'm AT the boathouse; and between the warming up and drill work, usually the only part of the session that I'd call "a work-out" lasts roughly 30-minutes).

On the other hand, rowing is a team activity (I'm mostly in 8's) and once you've committed to showing up the next morning (the default is "I'm in" and you have to proactively opt out by about 6pm when the coach makes the lineup), you pretty much HAVE to show up. There's no "yeah, maybe tomorrow" when the 4:30 alarm rings. It has definitely kept me doing SOMETHING.

I haven't had time or recovery capabilities to do much of anything else, but I've just in the past month or so started to back off all of the at-home erging and work in regular pull-ups and BB front squats and cleans and presses (was kind of shocking how far my front squat had fallen).

The golfers elbow is pretty-much gone.

Green Lake Summer Extravaganza in August is the big one.

There are some little races in Gig Harbor over 4th of July weekend just with the local club.

And then in Fall we have the Green Lake Frostbite Regatta in November.

Our new house has beach front ownership and 5 min walk to an inlet / bay, so easier to practice on the water at will.

 

[Steve Freides]

You might not know this, but hip hinging is incredibly critical to becoming a good rower.

I know nothing about rowing, but have always been concerned that it's not possible to keep a flat lumbar while doing it. Is that even possible?

-S-

 

[watchnerd]

I know nothing about rowing, but have always been concerned that it's not possible to keep a flat lumbar while doing it. Is that even possible?

-S-

Proper technique should, ideally, have your spine looking like the one on the right:

Or here is another view:

 

[Steve Freides]

@watchnerd, I'm not seeing any anterior pelvic tilt in the picture labelled that way, and neutral looks slightly rounded to me. Am I not understanding how rowing works?

-S-

 

[watchnerd]

@watchnerd, I'm not seeing any anterior pelvic tilt in the picture labelled that way, and neutral looks slightly rounded to me. Am I not understanding how rowing works?

-S-

It’s not expected to look like the lower back during a DL.

I don’t know if that’s anatomically possible given the seat

 

[JPCross]

@watchnerd - Something I figured I would toss out there towards you (but open to anyone to answer based on experience) and get your thoughts.

Based on my measurements, I have average length arms for someone my height, a pretty short torso for someone my height, and pretty long legs for someone my height. I recently experimented by putting a folded towel on the C2 seat, not for padding, but to raise the effective height of the seat by about 1" or so, and it made a ton of difference!

Much, much better position at the catch, more power and more even power through the drive, and a notably lower HR despite temps being a bit higher (definitely not a big improvement in performance from a week ago).

First - does this make sense at all to you, meaning someone with average arms, short torso, and long legs benefitting from sitting a tad higher? I am not well versed in rowing per se but from a physics perspective, it seems like it would make sense.

Second - without being concerned about padding or softness because I've never had an issue with the standard C2 seat, do you have experience with any dedicated seat pads such that there are any you would recommend for the purpose of raising the seat height a bit?

 

[watchnerd]

@watchnerd - Something I figured I would toss out there towards you (but open to anyone to answer based on experience) and get your thoughts.

Based on my measurements, I have average length arms for someone my height, a pretty short torso for someone my height, and pretty long legs for someone my height. I recently experimented by putting a folded towel on the C2 seat, not for padding, but to raise the effective height of the seat by about 1" or so, and it made a ton of difference!

Much, much better position at the catch, more power and more even power through the drive, and a notably lower HR despite temps being a bit higher (definitely not a big improvement in performance from a week ago).

First - does this make sense at all to you, meaning someone with average arms, short torso, and long legs benefitting from sitting a tad higher? I am not well versed in rowing per se but from a physics perspective, it seems like it would make sense.

Second - without being concerned about padding or softness because I've never had an issue with the standard C2 seat, do you have experience with any dedicated seat pads such that there are any you would recommend for the purpose of raising the seat height a bit?

I haven't used any seat pads, either improvised with a towel or after market.

(I have the opposite build -- long torso, shorter limbs)

But they seem to be popular enough that there is a market for them.

 

[JPCross]

To resurrect an oldie, I just completed a marathon distance row today and the first thought after getting off the erg was “man did that torch my glutes and hamstrings”.

I’ve been getting in a fair amount of rowing volume and training the hinge pattern 1-2x a week but the marathon row really highlighted how important having a strong hinge is in rowing, especially if I want to start building into more speed or higher intensity, shorter distance events.

 

[watchnerd]

To resurrect an oldie, I just completed a marathon distance row today and the first thought after getting off the erg was “man did that torch my glutes and hamstrings”.

I’ve been getting in a fair amount of rowing volume and training the hinge pattern 1-2x a week but the marathon row really highlighted how important having a strong hinge is in rowing, especially if I want to start building into more speed or higher intensity, shorter distance events.

Awesome, you felt it in the right places!

I've been neglecting the erg during the holiday season, so I've just done 5 days back to back. My hams are tender.

Today I allowed myself a rest day, since I spent 2.5 hours this morning hauling and stacking firewood.

 

[JPCross]

Awesome, you felt it in the right places!

I've been neglecting the erg during the holiday season, so I've just done 5 days back to back. My hams are tender.

Today I allowed myself a rest day, since I spent 2.5 hours this morning hauling and stacking firewood.

Right or wrong places, I felt it at the end. But I also suppose that comes from almost 3 hours in a relatively similar position doing a repeated motion without variation. I am feeling it today as well but its a different kind of feeling as opposed to what I would get when I was doing a lot of running as my predominant aerobic activity. I likely am just not an efficient runner or need a lot of work with form/technique when it comes to running for distances.

I know Pavel isn't the biggest fan of rowing or the erg but I have really come to enjoy it a lot. And the fact that there are so many people decades older than me who still train hard on it and would whoop my behind from a performance perspective make me inspired to really push to get better.