Barbell Top Strongman says Don’t Deadlift
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Robert Noftz
Level 5 Valued Member
Personally, I would not refer to him as a "no name guy". He's a strongman competitor who set a record. He competed against some big names in the business. He was invited onto a well known podcast to have a discussion. He appears to be a real gentleman who made some real sacrifices to follow his dreams.
I do have some doubts about generalizing his experience or observations. Also, in regards to the population that is coming to Strong First for instruction in strength training techniques or principles, I have doubts about how much value can be obtained by observing college or pro football training practices.
Strong First Team Leader Olliver Quinn wrote an article for this page that addresses some points that are relevant to this discussion. He was in the Royal Marines, a truly elite branch of the military, and he was in peak physical condition. The problem was, he was getting injuries because of the way he was doing the lifts. He later learned a better way to do the exercises and was able to grow in strength without all the pain. I will attach the link so you can read it yourself if you haven't already.
I suspect a lot of the football players Mr. Oberst observed were incredible athletes who were very strong, but they may have never learned the most efficient ways to do many of the lifts. They excelled anyways because they have great genetics for their sport and they have youth on their side. The sport they play also makes great demands on their recovery ability.
Also, Mr. Oberst gets paid if he wins a competition. He may have decided it's worth the risk to push himself to extreme limits. I suspect the average person coming to Strong First for training has more to gain from the approach they advocate. For example, stop most of your sets when you could do one or two more reps, don't grind out reps, save some for the next workout. Learning to pick things up safely is an important skill for many people.
I don't lift powerlifter level weights, but I was noticing pain in my lower back when I deadlifted. I spent some time with a Strong First trainer, Renata Music, and she showed me how to deadlift in a way that didn't result in back pain. Also, I learned that posterior tilt was an issue for me when squatting. If I want to squat without back pain I have to be very careful about not allowing my back to go into flexion. At my age, I can't get away with powering weights up any which way. There is no value in doing a few more pounds if it leaves me with an injury.
It also seems like volume is a very big issue with deadlifting. If you are going to go really heavy you probably can't do it very often. If you apply the more relaxed approach to training and always save a little for the next workout then you may be able to train deadlifts more often. Of course, the total volume of other work or training will have an impact on your system and needs to be kept in mind.
From the Battlefield to Back Injury to Beast Tamer: Ollie Quinn’s Kettlebell Journey | StrongFirst
LightningFast
Level 2 Valued Member
No s%&t, brother. The question is: do I want/need to spend the time to learn the perfect technique of HC or should I move to another lifts? I choose the latter.
LightningFast
Level 2 Valued Member
Maybe, in theory. I know of many athletes who got injured by slow lifts. Here is another fact: a lot of back surgery is done on people who never lifted heavy or were involved in heavy manual labor.
It's a very hard concept to get your the head around, even for medical professionals, that chronic pain is mostly the disease of the brain, not the disease of the place where it hurts. Chronic back pain is the disease of the brain: up to 70% of patients disabled by it imaging shows nothing. Another enlightening fact - trigger point injections. The technique is quite simple: press on the person's back, find a painful point and inject the juice du jour. Which a few decades ago was local anesthetic and corticosteroid. Then they skipped the steroid, and the result was the same. A decade ago instead of local anesthetic they started injecting saline - same relief. Final straw - instead of injecting saline they started injecting... nothing: just stuck a needle in the trigger point, kept it there for a minute, take it out. The same result - pain relief for several days to couple of months.
In this context it is even wrong to use the word injury. The brain senses some movement patterns, doesn't like it and sends you the command to stop doing whatever you are doing, in the form of pain. Neuro-matrix theory of pain explains this well.
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
The Olympic Pulls
Olympic movement develop Power. That is one of the reason they are a staple exercise for athletes. They produce some, if not, the highest Power Outputs measured in sports.
During Entire Snatch or Clean Pull Movements:
34.3 w/kg Men
21.8 w/kg Women
Second Pulls:
52.6 w/kg Men
39.2 w/kg Women
Source: "A Review of Power Output Studies of Olympic and Powerlifting: Methodology, Performance, Dr John Garhammer
Thus, for someone interested in the development of Power should at some point consider taking the time to learn them.
However, for someone not interested in devoting some time in learning, hear are some alternatives.
1) Heavy Kettlebell Swings
Research (Dr Bret Contreras) demonstrated the Heavy Kettlebell Swings produce Power Output that rivals Olympic Pulls/Movements.
Heavy Kettlebell Swings means using load that are around 50 to 100% of your body weight. That means if you weight 180 lbs, working with Kettlebells Swings that are 90 to 180 lbs.
A great tool that allows you to use an adjustable Kettlebell Swings in that weight range is...
The Hungarian Core Blaster
This video demonstrates how to make your own Hungarian Core Blaster. The cost is around $20.00 of pipe from Lowes/Home Depot, plus the cost of some Standard Weight Plates with a 1 inch diameter.
I have a Hungarian Core Blaster. I performed swing with up to 175 lbs.
2) Trap Bar Power Jump Squats
Research has demonstrated that Trap Bar Power Jumps produce Power Output that is comparable to Olympic Movements. Source: Optimal loading range for the development of peak power output in the hexagonal barbell jump squat. - PubMed - NCBI
For someone who doesn't have a Trap Bar, performing Dumbbell Power Jump Squats works.
Learning Curve
Both of these methods, Heavy Kettlebell Swings and Trap Bar Power Jump Squats, are not as technical. Thus, the learning curve is shorter.
Kenny Croxdale
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GeoffreyLevens
Level 6 Valued Member
Acupuncture
LightningFast
Level 2 Valued Member
Not really. The concept of acupuncture is different, and the needle placement points are not in the painful area and often in the remote areas, such as hands, arms, feet etc.
GeoffreyLevens
Level 6 Valued Member
Concept it different but after being a practicing acupuncturist for over 25 years and treating heaps of injuries, I can assure you, needles are place both in remote areas but also (most of the time but not always) in the painful area.
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