Training Slow Twitch Fibers

[serjetto]

All right, ladies and gentlemen. I have a question, does anyone train slow muscle fibers? As described in these articles: How to Build Your Slow Fibers, Part II | StrongFirst It looks like the holy grail of functional hypertrophy that everyone wants without the negative effects of bodybuilding. Does anyone have experience with such training, what are your results? Is it possible to combine this with S&S and Iron Cardio in one training cycle? I like the idea of doing it GTG style for push ups.

 

[LukeV]

one day has 9 sets to failure with five minute rests??? sure there’s easier ways to build muscle but I don’t doubt this will do it

 

[renegadenate]

Nope!!! Zero interest.

 

[silveraw]

looks like the holy grail of functional hypertrophy that everyone wants without the negative effects of bodybuilding

What negative effects are you looking to avoid?

 

[Philippe Geoffrion]

What negative effects are you looking to avoid?

Ditto. Please don’t say getting “too big”.

 

[Torin]

All right, ladies and gentlemen. I have a question, does anyone train slow muscle fibers? As described in these articles: How to Build Your Slow Fibers, Part II | StrongFirst

I've used these protocols for years.
The best results I got was from squatting.
Squats are different than every other exercise I used the protocol with in terms of both difficulty and results.

Going to failure in Squats over and over is very hard.
Most other exercises I've used with the protocol aren't as bad.

Article about using Squats and Rows with the slow twitch protocols:

How to Row 3000 Miles Across an Ocean with a Barbell | StrongFirst

Training for a long endurance race? Learn how training your slow-twitch muscle fiber strength can improve your results.

www.strongfirst.com

I go to true failure, where I can no longer move against the weight. This seems to be the intention of Pavel's articles:

once you hit failure, descend rock bottom

But the article I linked has you stop one rep shy of failure:

For safety’s sake, failure means feeling unlikely to complete the next rep

This would be much easier.

one day has 9 sets to failure with five minute rests

I always use the full 10 minutes of rest. It helps a lot on most exercises, but it makes for a long workout.

 

[Torin]

Is it possible to combine this with S&S and Iron Cardio in one training cycle?

Question:

Jonathan Milks says:
March 10, 2015 at 4:09 pm
How would you program swings and ST goblet squats?
Response:

Pavel Tsatsouline says:
March 11, 2015 at 9:34 am
Jonathan, SQs twice a week according to Selouyanov’s protocol; swings 3-4 times a week on other days.

Question:

Sam McLean says:
February 10, 2015 at 5:12 pm
Pavel,
Would this be a stand alone program, or serve better in addition to something like S&S...
Response:

Pavel Tsatsouline says:
February 11, 2015 at 4:42 pm
Sam, either way—but combining requires one to be an experienced coach.
One option would be adding only the ST leg protocol to S&S.

Pavel may have been cautious about recommending S&S with the slow twitch pushups because of the risk of dropping the kettlebell on your face if your tricep gave out.

But he has approved doing slow-twitch Squats with S&S.

I mostly focus on the slow twitch exercises during the cycle I've included them in.

 

[serjetto]

I've used these protocols for years.
The best results I got was from squatting.
Squats are different than every other exercise I used the protocol with in terms of both difficulty and results.

Going to failure in Squats over and over is very hard.
Most other exercises I've used with the protocol aren't as bad.

Article about using Squats and Rows with the slow twitch protocols:

How to Row 3000 Miles Across an Ocean with a Barbell | StrongFirst

Training for a long endurance race? Learn how training your slow-twitch muscle fiber strength can improve your results.

www.strongfirst.com

I go to true failure, where I can no longer move against the weight. This seems to be the intention of Pavel's articles:

But the article I linked has you stop one rep shy of failure:

This would be much easier.



I always use the full 10 minutes of rest. It helps a lot on most exercises, but it makes for a long workout.

Thank you for sharing your experience

 

[Steve Freides]

I have a question, does anyone train slow muscle fibers?

I think it's not popular because it's not training that's a whole lot of fun to do, and I don't mean that in a bad way. Slow, partial ROM, to or near failure - does not sound like my idea of a good time.

Is it possible to combine this with S&S and Iron Cardio in one training cycle?

I think a lot of folks do that, with the obvious proviso that it can be a lot and you'd have to be careful not to overtrain.

-S-

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

functional hypertrophy that everyone wants without the negative effects of bodybuilding.

Functional Hypertrophy

What is your definition of that?

The Positive Hypertrophy Effects

It increases muscle mass providing you follow a well written Hypertrophy Training Program.

It also is an effective method, providing an increase in Strength.

You'll get more progression if you do a long set at the end of a training session

You'll get more progression if you do a long set at the end of a training session

If you train for strength, and do sets with heavy weights and few reps, you'll build up more muscle mass and strength by finishing your workout with one set using less weight but more reps. Sports scientists at the University of Tsukuba wrote about this in 2004 in the Journal of Strength and...

ergo-log.com

If you train for strength, and do sets with heavy weights and few reps, you'll build up more muscle mass and strength by finishing your workout with one set using less weight but more reps.
"The present results demonstrated the effects of an additional set of low-intensity exercise immediately after a high-intensity, low-repetition exercise in gaining muscular strength and endurance, suggesting its usefulness in the strength protocol", the researchers conclude.

The Negative Hypertrophy Training Effect

Increasing muscular size has to do with training the two Fast Twitch Fibers.

While training Slow Twitch Muscle Fibers contribute to an increase in size, it is minimal.

Secondly, if a program only revolves around Hypertrophy Training, a substantial decrease in Maximum Strength, Power and Speed occur.

Conjugate Training

This is defined as training different types in the same Periodization Cycle.

1) Dr. Michael Zourdos

Zoudos' research determine Strength Gain were effective a Conjugate Periodization Cycle of...

a) Monday: Hypertrophy Training

b) Wednesday: Power Training

c) Friday: Maximum Strength Training

Dr. Brad Schoenfeld

Schoenfeld's research demonstrated essentially the same occurred for Hypertrophy Training when these three factors were implemented...

1) Mechanical Tension

This is Maximum Strength Training; Heavy Weight, Low Repetitions, Long Rest Periods between Sets.

2) Metabolic Stress

Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding: Light to Moderate Load, Moderate to High Repetitions, Short Rest Periods between Sets.

3) Muscle Damage

InFrequently pushing an exercise to failure.

Full Range Movement the Stretch the Muscle; "Loaded Stretches".

 

[serjetto]

Функціональна гіпертрофія

Яке ваше визначення цього?

Позитивний ефект гіпертрофії

Це збільшує м’язову масу, якщо ви дотримуєтеся добре написаної програми тренувань з гіпертрофії.

Це також ефективний метод, що забезпечує збільшення Сили.

Ви досягнете більшого прогресу, якщо виконаєте довгий підхід наприкінці тренування

You'll get more progression if you do a long set at the end of a training session

If you train for strength, and do sets with heavy weights and few reps, you'll build up more muscle mass and strength by finishing your workout with one set using less weight but more reps. Sports scientists at the University of Tsukuba wrote about this in 2004 in the Journal of Strength and...

ergo-log.com

Якщо ви тренуєтеся для підвищення сили та виконуєте підходи з великою вагою та малою кількістю повторень, ви наростите більше м’язової маси та сили, завершивши тренування одним підходом із меншою вагою, але більшою кількістю повторень.
«Ці результати продемонстрували вплив додаткового комплексу вправ низької інтенсивності відразу після вправи високої інтенсивності з низьким числом повторів на збільшення м’язової сили та витривалості, що свідчить про його корисність у силовому протоколі», – підсумовують дослідники.

Негативний ефект тренування гіпертрофії

Збільшення розміру м’язів пов’язане з тренуванням двох швидких волокон.

Хоча тренування Slow Twitch Muscle Fibers сприяє збільшенню розміру, воно мінімальне.

По-друге, якщо програма орієнтована лише на тренування гіпертрофії, відбувається суттєве зниження максимальної сили, потужності та швидкості.

Спряжене навчання

Це визначається як навчання різних типів в одному циклі періодизації.

1) Доктор Майкл Зурдос

Дослідження Zoudos показали, що приріст сили був ефективним циклом сполученої періодизації...

a) Понеділок: Тренування гіпертрофії

б) Середа: силове тренування

c) П’ятниця: Максимально силове тренування

Доктор Бред Шенфельд

Дослідження Шенфельда показали, що, по суті, те ж саме відбувається з тренуванням гіпертрофії, коли ці три фактори були реалізовані...

1) Механічний натяг

Це тренування максимальної сили; Велика вага, низька кількість повторень, тривалі періоди відпочинку між підходами.

2) Метаболічний стрес

Гіпертрофія/бодібілдінг: від легкого до помірного навантаження, від середнього до великого повторення, короткі періоди відпочинку між підходами.

3) Пошкодження м'язів

Часто доводячи вправу до відмови.

Повномасштабні рухи для розтягування м’язів; «Навантажені розтяжки».

Ваші тези реферативні. Моє запитання було в контексті ідеології Pavel і конкретно навчання на основі досліджень Віктора Селуянова зокрема.

 

[serjetto]

Functional Hypertrophy

What is your definition of that?

The Positive Hypertrophy Effects

It increases muscle mass providing you follow a well written Hypertrophy Training Program.

It also is an effective method, providing an increase in Strength.

You'll get more progression if you do a long set at the end of a training session

You'll get more progression if you do a long set at the end of a training session

If you train for strength, and do sets with heavy weights and few reps, you'll build up more muscle mass and strength by finishing your workout with one set using less weight but more reps. Sports scientists at the University of Tsukuba wrote about this in 2004 in the Journal of Strength and...

ergo-log.com

If you train for strength, and do sets with heavy weights and few reps, you'll build up more muscle mass and strength by finishing your workout with one set using less weight but more reps.
"The present results demonstrated the effects of an additional set of low-intensity exercise immediately after a high-intensity, low-repetition exercise in gaining muscular strength and endurance, suggesting its usefulness in the strength protocol", the researchers conclude.

The Negative Hypertrophy Training Effect

Increasing muscular size has to do with training the two Fast Twitch Fibers.

While training Slow Twitch Muscle Fibers contribute to an increase in size, it is minimal.

Secondly, if a program only revolves around Hypertrophy Training, a substantial decrease in Maximum Strength, Power and Speed occur.

Conjugate Training

This is defined as training different types in the same Periodization Cycle.

1) Dr. Michael Zourdos

Zoudos' research determine Strength Gain were effective a Conjugate Periodization Cycle of...

a) Monday: Hypertrophy Training

b) Wednesday: Power Training

c) Friday: Maximum Strength Training

Dr. Brad Schoenfeld

Schoenfeld's research demonstrated essentially the same occurred for Hypertrophy Training when these three factors were implemented...

1) Mechanical Tension

This is Maximum Strength Training; Heavy Weight, Low Repetitions, Long Rest Periods between Sets.

2) Metabolic Stress

Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding: Light to Moderate Load, Moderate to High Repetitions, Short Rest Periods between Sets.

3) Muscle Damage

InFrequently pushing an exercise to failure.

Full Range Movement the Stretch the Muscle; "Loaded Stretches".

Your theses are abstract. My question was in the context of Pavel ideology and specifically training based on Victor Seluyanov's research in particular.

 

[silveraw]

Your theses are abstract. My question was in the context of Paul's ideology and specifically training based on Victor Seluyanov's research in particular.

Less abstract, Building muscle mass can help increase strength over time.