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Old Forum Warmup w/ total tension - foot on the brake?

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Lehrskov

Lehrskov

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I recently did 6 weeks of Easy Strength with DL and BP, focusing on triples (usually 3x3), but doing sets of 5 at the start of the cycle with Sumo, Romanian etc. thrown in.

Now: I also did 3 warmup sets of 5 reps each for both the DL and the BP.

60kg DL warmup sets (started the cycle at 110kg - ended at 160kg, so warmup is about 35-40% 1RM)

40kg BP warmup sets (started the cycle at 60kg - ended at 90kg, so warmup is about 40% 1RM)

 

Now my problem is that I'm treating the 15 warmup reps as life-or-death, trying to get tight from head to toe, activate lats, abs, glutes, the tip of my nose... you get the idea.

<b>I have a few issues with this: </b>

1) The warmups take up quite a bit of time AND I don't feel ready for the work sets until at least a 3+ minute break after the last warmup set. Gym time for the two lifts easily go to an hour and a half, with almost half of that time being warmup.

2) I feel a little tired going into the work sets, despite the weight being uber light...

3) While I don't feel trashed leaving the gym, I don't feel particularly fresh either - I've tensed my body totally 50 times, after all.

4) On the final day of my cycle I was going for a sort-of-max and decided to do 6 singles in each lift and skip warmup lifts. The weights FLEW of the ground. My previous DL PR was 140kgs and I was aiming for 145kgs, but it felt SO light that I decided to defy the gods and stacked 160kgs... and it felt like I could have done 180kgs easy.

 

So my question is: am I warming up right? Safely. Efficiently. The cycles did have a happy ending, after all...

ANY feedback, experiences, thoughts etc are welcome - I'm new to the iron so assume I'm both daft and inexperienced :)

/Ulrik

 

 

 
 
I am curious about this, as well. I just started PTTP about a week ago and am using the full-body tension technique in all lifts.
 
I also would be interested in the Strong First point of  view on this matter.  Great question, Ulrik!

I have heard opposing schools of thought on this one.  Some say to treat every lift like a maximal lift, and yet doing this will just kill any movement fluidity, and also wear you right out during warmups. Seems to me that different moves and different loads call for different levels of bracing, ex.  you can't be grinding out kettle bell swings as though you are performing max DL's.

Perhaps it has to do with whether by nature, you are sloppy and loose, or an "over-stabilizer".  The latter will recruit their antagonistic muscle groups for stability, and essentially lock up and have a hard time moving explosively.

Btw, I found this offering from Kelly Starrett of Supple Leopard fame very helpful:

http://www.mobilitywod.com/2011/11/episode-340-peak-tension-vs-working-tension/
 
I believe that with the very low volume of PTTP, practicing feed forward tension and irradiation can only do good things. Something like easy strength, though--make it easy! Practice with perfect form and use compensatory acceleration, but no need to tire yourself out with max tension each set. Jmo, of course.
 
What i observe with my strength training is that the ability to generate the tension is a skill. And at the beginning you should practice that skill a lot, to reach some level of controling this tension through the whole body. And after reach some level (i think Power to the people and Naked warrior here are the best programs to reach this basics of tension skills), you will have abillities to contract the muscles just to perform lift or  with solid stabilize, strong and fluid movement. And i agree here with Aris, that doing some easy reps with moderate weights like your warm-up, there is no need to squezze the muscles that hard.

But when you are focusing on some heavy lifts with 1-3 reps in style of Pavel's Tension Day practice, then yes - clench your body into fist.

Just my observation.

 
 
Ulrik,

You're training too long ... by your description: 12 sets of DL and BP @ 90min?  Do ~5min of some motor control / plyometric challenges for the warm-up: crawling, jumping jacks, walking lunges, goblet squats, etc.  Then do 1-2 sets of moderately loaded 2-hand swings.  You should be at about 7min in now ...

Do one set of 3-5 reps of DLs or BPs to "climb" to your work sets: for DLs use at least 70% of your work sets for the day as a warm-up set ... you shouldn't pull too light; and maybe 50% for your BPs.  Rest 3-5min between your work sets.  Always practice maximum tension on your lifts.  You should be at around 45min now.

This is not steadfast.  Warm-up as you need ... sometimes you need much less than at other times.  As an example, when I'm on the road, I bring my 40kg with me and bang out 120 swings twice per day at rest stops along the highway.  My warm-up is the walk to the restroom from the parking area.  After two days on the road, my back feels much better and I haven't lost any function.  Hmmm...

The current trend of "over warming up" is nonsense.  Look at Pavel's warm-up in S&S compared to some interwebz programs.  Short, sweet, and effective.

Derrick,

I've said this here before: take what Starrett says with a grain of salt.

-Al
 
Hey guys - thanks for all the input!

I'll try and cut down on the volume of the warmup sets/reps, but otherwise keep the total tension in there.

Thanks!
 
Ulrik, does Easy Strength say to warm up in the way you've described?  If so, please tell me on what page - I don't recall this.

Try to plan the minimum amount of training necessary to achieve the desired result.  Do as few warmups as you can.  My memory of the research on this is that most people can get by with fewer warmups than they normally do, but if you're used to a higher volume warmup, stopping that will not work for you.  If you want to change your warmup habits, do it carefully - but requiring less warmup is a good goal for a strength trainee, IMHO.

I would _not_ warm up with "total" tension - what's the point of that except if you're a novice lifter, and even then ...  You want to, very early in your lifting career, be able to dial in a percentage of effort on demand.  The ability to produce feed-forward tension is extremely important for your safety and your performance, but no one can lift at "total tension" for many repetitions - you will burn out.  You have to find the appropriate middle ground - practice feed-forward tension at a level appropriate to the lift, to the percentage of 1RM the effort represents, and even to how you feel on a given day.

-S-
 
I thought that in Andy Bolten's blog post on this website, that he was saying to use every rep, warmup or otherwise, as an opportunity to practice tightness.  It doesn't sound to me like he is saying to dial in the percentage of effort to the percentage of the 1RM.  Did I misunderstand what he was saying?
 
@al: Trust me, I take everything everybody says with a grain of salt.  This b/c I learned to think for myself when I was a young lad.  As far as Kelly Starrett, I find about 7/10 of his ideas to be helpful, and 3/10 to be inscrutable, or not helpful.  But the stuff that does resonate is very, very useful.

Still, maybe the rest of it  is helpful to someone out there, as I am not so arrogant to think that I know what's right for the entirety of humanity when it comes to movement. Anyway, that particular video was certainly helpful to me.

On the topic du jour, if an individual comes into the game and very early experiences a loss of tension and stability, then their bias is always going to be get tight, get tighter, irradiate, etc.  And they are correct for their neurological tendencies.  It may be hard for them to understand that not every other human being learning to lift is going to have the same issue.

http://www.danogborn.com/training/strength-before-size-heres-why/#.UzdNNK1dVbw

Here's a nice article on how regulating and turning down the volume of antagonistic co-contraction is potentially the source of newbie strength gains in the absence of new muscle tissue.  This refers to the neurological adaptations that allows new strength trainers to increase their loads exponentially, while not gaining an appreciable amount of muscle mass.  Where does that strength come from?

Perhaps the lifter is figuring out how much tension is necessary, and where it is best applied. Perhaps they start driving with the brakes off, which is the title of this question.  And it is a great question.

Perhaps they begin to figure out how to dial in the appropriate level of tension to maximize movement potential.  And the appropriate amount of tension also involves sorting out what is stabilizing, and what is moving. If you lock up every joint with total tension, you have a stalemate, and cannot move. It's basically a voluntary state of catatonia.

And yes, this stuff gets extremely complicated.  DB
 
Hi guys

Thanks again for all the input - I'm wiser for it.

My takeaways:

Scale down warmups sets until it starts feeling wrong. Maybe I won't need any at all (=win).
If I have warm up sets, they need to be treated properly BUT this doesn't necessarily mean that it should be with total tension. 'Properly' depends on current goals, but should include attaining a basic level of skill early on (which is still me).

I'll push onwards to my current SS goal and then get back to a lifting cycle with this new knowledge.

Thanks guys!

/Ulrik

 
 
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