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What I have been up to and what I have learned

I posted this on another thread just now, but I'd like to post it here too as it traces a new development which I am finding extremely effective and I think could give some ideas to others here:

I'm actually doing Red Zone these days to improve my fencing and judo. Red Zone is essentially the same as S&S except that you switch out the TGUs for 1h military presses.
I'm more worried about my fencing than my judo these days, and fencing is an extremely ASYMMETRICAL LOAD combat art and sport. Thus, all the 1 handed swings and especially presses replicate beautifully the kind of strength and power needed for fencing. However, that stuff is all still excellent for judo too.
The presses strengthen the shoulders and forearms, which are critical for manipulating the swords. However, it's actually the stabilizing muscles on the other side of the body that need the strengthening the most. The body has to get used to a constant, violent asymmetrical load where the critical point is the right hand being balanced out by the entire left side of the body. Asymmetrical exercises where you have the weight in your right hand and where your left side is doing hard work balancing the moving weight out, are ideal for fencing.
Doing equal amounts of asymmetrical exercises on both sides of the body cures the physical imbalances that happen to every fencer who does not do this. The old school advice was to train equally with the sword in your right hand as in your left hand. This can be circumvented with asymmetrical weight training. (However, you aren't giong to become an ambidextrous weapons master then though!!!)
While mere asymmetrical strength from my kettlebelling was not enough to jump into fencing and do well at first, now that I have two years of intensive fencing training behind me, I have reactivated my kettlebell asymmetrical strength training, and it is jumping me up several levels in fencing FAST!
  1. Sport appropriate strength without skill is a good start only.
  2. Sport specific skill without sport appropriate strength means you need to develop the sport appropriate strength!
 
rhgo1 said:
I know nothing at all about fencing.Would club bells have any carry over?
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No, for the same reason that boxing training holding weights doesn't work. You lose the speed, you change your form, and you're now just doing something kinda similar but slower and more clumsy. They make "weighted" swords but, like boxing training using slightly heavier gloves, the weight increase is enough but not too much. Change of balance doesn't help either.
 
Maybe @rhgo1 could clarify but I assumed the question didn't mean performing fencing movements with clubs but rather if the attributes generated by club training would carry over to fencing.
 
John K said:
No, for the same reason that boxing training holding weights doesn't work. You lose the speed, you change your form, and you're now just doing something kinda similar but slower and more clumsy. They make "weighted" swords but, like boxing training using slightly heavier gloves, the weight increase is enough but not too much. Change of balance doesn't help either.
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I think most sports would be similar as well. There's something to be said for GPP and doing things that carry over to the traits needed without being too specific that it would ingrain bad motor patterns.
 
the hansenator said:
Maybe @rhgo1 could clarify but I assumed the question didn't mean performing fencing movements with clubs but rather if the attributes generated by club training would carry over to fencing.
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Strong mobile shoulders, good wrist strength ... Sure, I can see that. If one goes from club training because that's what they enjoy and suddenly decides to dabble in HEMA or fencing or whatever, they might have a leg up.
 
rhgo1 said:
I know nothing at all about fencing.Would club bells have any carry over?
Click to expand...
I would assume so.

The problem is a lack of strength, particularly asymmetrical load strength. I do ''heavy hands'' hikes with 3lbs dumbbells, and this helps my fencing too. However, the 3lbs dumbbells are pretty light and are not really adding much or any strength. It is more about getting used to holding something in my hands while moving, which has transfer over to fencing perhaps more in terms of just hand coordination, and some endurance. It makes more sense to me to lift heavy in order to actually strengthen up what I need for fencing.

I would assume that much heavier kettlebell presses would be better than light-ish Indian clubs, given as others have said here that the movement patterns are different anyhow. One ought to go heavy and actually get much stronger!

Higher absolute strength translates into more endurance too. And, with more endurance we can train longer, meaning more skill development. We can also compete at full-throttle longer.

With my added strength from the presses (and swings) it is easier to have fine motor control over my swords... so my technique is improved a lot as well!
 
I suppose the major change in my kettlebelling given that I am so active with judo and fencing is that I am finding myself primarily using the 24kg bell for S&S rather than the 32kg. This means in a sense that I am not really doing proper S&S at the moment. I'm just playing it safe, getting the benefits of S&S in most ways, without overtaxing myself for my combat sports. Also, if I want to do Red Zone on a given day, I do it. Minimally, just presses and or swings to some count of sets and reps or other.

We need to get stronger for our sports, stronger than the sports themselves make us, which is where weight training comes in handy!

Same for life itself. We need to be stronger than life itself makes us. Again, weights are needed. This was universally understood all through history and likely even before history.
 
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