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Kettlebell Heart Health: HIIT or A+A?

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NoahMarek

NoahMarek

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I wanted to hear some of your thoughts on what is better for heart health. Many studies have shown that high intensity interval training is very beneficial for heart health when dosed properly 2-3 times per week (aka not doing amrap workouts 5 days a week). However at SF, many people really prefer A+A over HIIT. When it comes to heart health, is there research that shows that A+A also produces positive hearth adaptation as well?

My primary focus is strength training, but I also like adding conditioning with kettlebells. So what are the best options if my goals are sustainability and creating positive heart adaptations in addition to my current strength training? I know that MAF cyclic endurance activities would be a good choice but honestly, I can't dedicate that kind of time with my school/work schedule. That is why my preference is kettlebell conditioning. I am open to other suggestions if they are reasonably time efficient though. Thanks in advance for the responses!

One quick bit of background: I am a 22 yr old male and am in good health.
 
You might be interested in this:

Aerobic Conditioning Roundtable: Experts in Endurance – Complete Human Performance
"We have some distinguished guests in this episode of CHP Radio! Alec Blenis of Complete Human Performance is on air, asking fellow CHP endurance coach Nickademus Hollon, running legend Steve Magness, Dr. Kenneth Jay, and Master RKC Andrew Read about all things aerobic conditioning. Tune in to this jam-packed episode full of tips and tidbits from some of the masters of endurance training. Whether you’re a beginner or a seasoned competitor, an Ironman triathlete or a powerlifter, you’ll find plenty of takeaways from this roundtable to apply to your own training."

They do discuss heart health and different approaches, though not specifically kettlebells. It's a good podcast.

I don't know of any research on A+A relative to heart health.
 
New member here, while I have been reading the various thread for quite some time this one piqued my interest so I took the plunge. I, too, have struggled with which approach to use to promote heart health. I settled on a primarily MAF approach due to several factors, not the least of which being mitochondrial development and sustainability. After having several episodes of atrial fibrillation over the last twenty years my doctor wanted me to undergo another stress test and echocardiogram both of which took place last Wednesday. The stress test took a long time in order to reach my target heart rate, which the cardiologist said was a good sign. He said that everything looked great and no blockages to boot. The echo revealed that I have an ejection fraction of 75% with no hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, which he said was outstanding and should be no higher. My training has been based on approximately 80% A+A and 20% glycolytic. I saw tremendous results when I first started KB training, but was spending too much time in lactic acid which resulted in overtraining, thus the switch to 80/20. I suspect that there are also some favorable genetics at work.
 
NoahMarek said:
@aciampa I would love to hear your thoughts on this if you have the time.
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Let me start outside of physical fitness: nutrition is probably the largest factor; don't smoke; and reduce your controllable stress (which is actually the largest factor).

In fitness, reducing your net acid load (aka MAF) and balancing strength training (wall thickening) with locomotion (LV size improvements) are the keys.

There is no getting around the long walk or run for heart health; so, in your case, take advantage of the resiliency of youth while your schedule is tight, and plan your future life such that it allows time for physical training every day.
 
aciampa said:
plan your future life such that it allows time for physical training every day
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This is profound, but it's really what it takes to stay strong and healthy throughout life. Ideally it becomes something you enjoy doing. But even if it's just neutral, I can tell you that when you get to middle age and you see your peers spending just as much time on health issues as you spend on physical training, and they are much more miserable doing that.... it all becomes clearly worth it.
 
Anna C said:
I can tell you that when you get to middle age and you see your peers spending just as much time on health issues as you spend on physical training, and they are much more miserable doing that.... it all becomes clearly worth it.
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This is also profound. It's hard to believe the state of some people who are barely in their upper twenties or low thirties, let alone their forties!
 
"In fitness, reducing your net acid load (aka MAF) and balancing strength training (wall thickening) with locomotion (LV size improvements) are the keys." -Al Ciampa

^^This is gold.

(My quote function wasn't working correctly so that's why I copied it this way)
 
Where the trick comes in for me is parsing my training modalities in order to stay within the 80/20 parameters. It can be difficult to perform certain lifts/exercises without exceeding MAF heart rate, a decently loaded squat for example. My MAF training has been first in the sequence and that forces me to choose wisely when it comes to multiple joint lifts, which is probably a good thing. Not as many lifts, more focus.
 
If someone can name any given year's American Idol, Dancing w/ the Stars, etc. etc. winner..then he/she has time for an hour of locomotion or strength training. Not so much an issue for most SF forum members but certainly applicable to those whom we try to help.
 
Denny Phillips said:
Where the trick comes in for me is parsing my training modalities in order to stay within the 80/20 parameters. It can be difficult to perform certain lifts/exercises without exceeding MAF heart rate, a decently loaded squat for example. My MAF training has been first in the sequence and that forces me to choose wisely when it comes to multiple joint lifts, which is probably a good thing. Not as many lifts, more focus.
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Don't apply MAF to strength training.
 
@NoahMarek, last time I looked, many people training A + A were trying to keep their heart rate in the MAF range. And many people doing A + A are also doing more traditional long, slow distance as well.

And I also want to ask: Is your heart not healthy enough already with whatever your current training is?

I'll make a concrete suggestion of a program:

- Do kettlebell swings, about 100 per day, in sets of 10 in an on/off manner that keeps your HR in the MAF zone. This will give you explosive strength, strength-endurance, and the benefits of MAF training for your heart. Start with a weight you can do for 50 total reps in 5 minutes, increase the volume to 100 total reps in 10 minutes, then as you come to "own" the weight, lower the time until you're doing 100 total reps in 5 minutes.

- Do getups, about 10 per day, as alternating singles in order not to tire out stabilizers. This will give you supporting strength, core strength, and resilient shoulder strength.

What does everyone think of the program I just designed? :)

-S-
 
@Steve Freides I was reading this eagerly and then I realized it was just S&S I think will stick with A+A style swings/snatches but try to add in 2-3 easy runs in throughout the week consistently for now. When my schedule gets busier next fall (I start a full time doctoral program of physical therapy), I will drop/ decrease the easy runs if necessary.
 
"Don't apply MAF to strength training."

Sound advice, Kettlebelephant. My reason for doing so stems from the results rendered from S&S plus another gem I found on this site. A link from one of the A+A threads had a workout posted by Pavel in the comments that was expressly designed to use MAF principles; perform a single KB clean followed by a press and ending with a front squat then park the bell until heart rate allows for doing the same on the opposite side. It has worked famously. I should mention that my main goal is to reduce body fat. Since starting S&S and later adding that mini tri-set I went from 6'6" 258 lbs to 235 lbs and am well within reach of my 225 lb goal weight. I wanted lean down because chins and pull-ups were an issue. I also prefer the lower impact on my lower body as compared to running.

Thanks for your submission. You all have given me a wealth of information.
 
Steve Freides said:
@NoahMarek, last time I looked, many people training A + A were trying to keep their heart rate in the MAF range. And many people doing A + A are also doing more traditional long, slow distance as well.

And I also want to ask: Is your heart not healthy enough already with whatever your current training is?

I'll make a concrete suggestion of a program:

- Do kettlebell swings, about 100 per day, in sets of 10 in an on/off manner that keeps your HR in the MAF zone. This will give you explosive strength, strength-endurance, and the benefits of MAF training for your heart. Start with a weight you can do for 50 total reps in 5 minutes, increase the volume to 100 total reps in 10 minutes, then as you come to "own" the weight, lower the time until you're doing 100 total reps in 5 minutes.

- Do getups, about 10 per day, as alternating singles in order not to tire out stabilizers. This will give you supporting strength, core strength, and resilient shoulder strength.

What does everyone think of the program I just designed? :)

-S-
Click to expand...

You should write a book about it! Come up with a title that makes it sound easy and tough at the same time. Something like:

Half-Assed & Hard
Moderate & Maximum
Easy & Extreme
Light & Lightning
Beach & Burn
Yes! & YAAAASSSS!!!!!
 
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