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Barbell Behind the head barbell press

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PeterLuffman

PeterLuffman

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I was reading an article by Christian Thib in which he says the behind the head press is superior to the barbell military press and then goes on to state the reasons why, and also uses Dimitry Klokov as an example.

If its that good, why didn't Pavel include it in the SFL.

Maybe because of the mobility issues?

What's everyone thoughts about it?

It seems like a good posterior variation to balance the shoulders.
 
@PeterLuffman, thank you for asking this question.

IANP (I Am Not Pavel) but the reasoning for including any specific exercise in a curriculum is necessarily more far-reaching than simply if an exercise is "good" or not. There are plenty of good exercises out there, and StrongFirst doesn't claim to be the _only_ source of strength education. (Just a very good one. :) )

-S-
 
I like the behind the neck press a lot. I don't know if I like it more or think it more beneficial than the overhead press from the front, but it is great. Maybe it works better than from the front if one does a lot of bench press, less overlap etc.

Some people find they have mobility issues with the behind the neck press. I don't have good mobility but I comfortably press from my traps. The exercise feels like it improves my mobility.

Some see the exercise as inherently dangerous. I don't think so. Rather than the exercise, how you do it, that's dangerous. The same talk happens about the squat and the deadlift.

I think Pavel has written about the behind the neck press on the forum and sees it as a fine exercise.

Lots of old time programs have the behind the neck press in them, more than the front from what I remember. It's also rather common among track and field athletes. Also powerlifters like Coan love it
 
PeterLuffman said:
I was reading an article by Christian Thib in which he says the behind the head press is superior to the barbell military press and then goes on to state the reasons why, and also uses Dimitry Klokov as an example.

If its that good, why didn't Pavel include it in the SFL.

Maybe because of the mobility issues?

What's everyone thoughts about it?

It seems like a good posterior variation to balance the shoulders.
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Do you have a link to the original article?

Used to do a lot of behind neck seated press, it requires a good bit of shoulder mobility and health to perform. Similar to the upright row, is a great shoulder exercise but it isn't for everybody.
 
North Coast Miller said:
Do you have a link to the original article?

Used to do a lot of behind neck seated press, it requires a good bit of shoulder mobility and health to perform. Similar to the upright row, is a great shoulder exercise but it isn't for everybody.
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Its on page one of google when you type 'behind the head press"

Its a T Nation article.
 
I've never had to press anything behind my head before, why train for it. If looking for shoulder isolation with little pec activation, upright rows make a lot of sense.
 
To Steve F's point - what ends up in the curriculum is selective.
The two presses of the SFL - MP and Bench are foundational presses and would (in my mind) be prerequisites to something like a behind the neck press.

To your point Peter L - your shoulders hate upright rows and other peoples shoulders hate behind the neck presses so just because a T-Nation article highlights an exercise doesn't mean it should have been or will be adopted within the curriculum.
 
Brett Jones said:
To Steve F's point - what ends up in the curriculum is selective.
The two presses of the SFL - MP and Bench are foundational presses and would (in my mind) be prerequisites to something like a behind the neck press.

To your point Peter L - your shoulders hate upright rows and other peoples shoulders hate behind the neck presses so just because a T-Nation article highlights an exercise doesn't mean it should have been or will be adopted within the curriculum.
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No my main point was just - is it really that good? It's not an exercise that feels particularly good to me. I can however see the merit in using it as a primer for shoulder pressing. It gets everything warmed up nicely and serves as a good marker for shoulder health.

Thanks Brett.
 
PeterLuffman said:
No my main point was just - is it really that good? It's not an exercise that feels particularly good to me. I can however see the merit in using it as a primer for shoulder pressing. It gets everything warmed up nicely and serves as a good marker for shoulder health.

Thanks Brett.
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For shoulder development it is a great exercise movement, but then so is the upright row. I made my shoulders pretty big using these two lifts primarily.

While it isn't a lift I would recommend doing a lot of 1RM, it could easily serve as a feature lift for shoulder development. Assuming your shoulders are healthy it feels plenty good once you can start moving some weight.

Takes a bit of exposure before it will feel good as its not a very instinctive movement.
 
Ah, Peter, your meaning becomes clearer now. You were suggesting that, because it wasn't in the SFL, it couldn't be that good - if I read you correctly.

I will respectfully disagree. It's not in the SFL for a variety of reasons, but I don't think one of those reasons is that it's a bad lift - it's a good lift, done by many strong people.

-S-
 
PeterLuffman said:
I've never had to put 150kg on my back and squat down to the ground.. but I can.
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I've had to squat down with a bunch of weight on my back and stand back up lots of times. However, to your point, the really heavy stuff has almost always been starting at the bottom and only the concentric portion of the squat.
 
Bro Mo said:
I've never had to press anything behind my head before, why train for it. If looking for shoulder isolation with little pec activation, upright rows make a lot of sense.
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If I have to really push at something with my arms extended, I think the behind the neck press mimics it better than the overhead press or the bench press.
 
Is there any need to include behind the neck press if you're already doing side presses? I feel like the start position for both puts the shoulder in a very similar position.
 
I do snatch grip BTN / Klokov presses specifically to strengthen my lockout for barbell snatches and overhead squats, which they're great for.

That being said, if I wasn't training the barbell snatch, I wouldn't prioritize them over other presses and I doubt I'd recommend them to the general populace.

(Given how many people have bad scapular mechanics, I think unilateral presses are a better risk/reward for the general populace).
 
Steve Freides said:
Ah, Peter, your meaning becomes clearer now. You were suggesting that, because it wasn't in the SFL, it couldn't be that good - if I read you correctly.

I will respectfully disagree. It's not in the SFL for a variety of reasons, but I don't think one of those reasons is that it's a bad lift - it's a good lift, done by many strong people.

-S-
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Yes if its that good, and better than the MP as Thib suggests, then I'm sure Pavel would have put in the SFL.

For the record, I've never heard anyone say its that great of a lift, in fact I've only ever heard negativity in regards to this lift.

I respect Christians opinion though, he has experience and knowledge. Could he be over selling it? Perhaps.

Anyway, I will experiment with the lift myself and see what I think. Its good to hear some love for this one in here! Thanks to everyone who chimed in.
 
I've seen behind the head presses used quite a bit as an ancillary lift for the Oly lifts, esp performed while in a full ATG squat. A "squatted, Sots, behind the head press" but done with fairly light weight, mostly as a mobility/stability enhancing drill.
 
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