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Bodyweight Convict Conditioning vs Naked Warrior

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NormanOsborn

NormanOsborn

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Is one better than the other for Bodyweight Training, or are they equally good? From looking at them, CC seems better suited for beginners, but has much higher volume. NW seems to be more advanced.

What say you? :)
 
Hello,

CC is a lot of volume if you do all the moves every day. Therefore, I would split : push / pull day, and leg / core / bridge day. CC performed with full tension can give you the best of both worlds (strength, variety, full body).

A reduced version of CC could also work well (3-5 sets of 3-5 reps, almost daily, of all moves, with the appropriate variation). I do something similar day in day out and it permits me to do 10GU with 1/2 bdw.

There is no need - IMHO - to aim for OA pull ups for example. Risk to benefit ratio can be high (shoulder injury). Same goes for OA HSPU (regular HSPU or HSPU with deficit are safer).

Overall, this is a good book but you can reap more benefit from it by applying some of the SF principles

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
I'm not familiar with CC other than discussions here so I won't comment on that, but NW and the SFB cert are strength-focused and based in StrongFirst principles. Master SFG @Karen Smith nailed it with this recent post.

??
BODYWEIGHT MASTERY
??
The @strongfirst SFB Certification is a deep dive into the mastery of muscle tension for greater strength and control.​
##​
We cover SF principles, progressions and program design for the following:​
#onearmpushup (or OAOL as shown here by @johnparker__ for the men’s test at our recent certification in San Diego).​
#pullup ( or flexhang)​
##​
Each skill is broken down into useable / teachable steps for all fitness levels from beginner to elite.​
##​
The carryover from this form of bodyweight training will help you PR all other modalities.​
 
Hello,

Assuming a few things :
- SFB and therefore TNW are principle based,
- Some moves are mentioned in both books (or 'environments').

Then it is possible to just:
- Drop rep/set of CC,
- Applying SF principles (tension, sets/reps, technique) to the CC moves.

We are not - IMHO - obliged to consider that one is better than the other or whatever. We can simply pick up what we want to get the best of both worlds, as long as the 'final product' works well.

The beauty of principles is that we can apply them to what we want.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Anna C said:
I'm not familiar with CC other than discussions here so I won't comment on that, but NW and the SFB cert are strength-focused and based in StrongFirst principles. Master SFG @Karen Smith nailed it with this recent post.

??
BODYWEIGHT MASTERY
??
The @strongfirst SFB Certification is a deep dive into the mastery of muscle tension for greater strength and control.​
##​
We cover SF principles, progressions and program design for the following:​
#onearmpushup (or OAOL as shown here by @johnparker__ for the men’s test at our recent certification in San Diego).​
#pullup ( or flexhang)​
##​
Each skill is broken down into useable / teachable steps for all fitness levels from beginner to elite.​
##​
The carryover from this form of bodyweight training will help you PR all other modalities.​
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've read both books, and noticed a real difference in the training philosophy, especially regarding volume. While Paul Wade does advise very low volume once someone has mastered the 10 Steps, the Steps themselves have relatively high volume, with multiple sets of 20 - 30 reps for some exercises.

By contrast, Pavel keeps the reps very low, and basically says(if memory serves)that anything more than 6 reps isn't going to build strength.
 
Hello,

On the long term, slightly higher rep range build connective tissue (tendons and ligaments), which low rep range does not do. However, the latter build more strength, as @offwidth said. These connective tissue can become a limiting factor to increase strength.

An approach could be to perform the low rep sets, to work on strength, and then, only one set with higher rep, but using an easier variation. This is advocated by A. Salkin (SFG2), but you also find it with R. Edgley.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Anna C said:
I'm not familiar with CC other than discussions here so I won't comment on that, but NW and the SFB cert are strength-focused and based in StrongFirst principles. Master SFG @Karen Smith nailed it with this recent post.

??
BODYWEIGHT MASTERY
??
The @strongfirst SFB Certification is a deep dive into the mastery of muscle tension for greater strength and control.​
##​
We cover SF principles, progressions and program design for the following:​
#onearmpushup (or OAOL as shown here by @johnparker__ for the men’s test at our recent certification in San Diego).​
#pullup ( or flexhang)​
##​
Each skill is broken down into useable / teachable steps for all fitness levels from beginner to elite.​
##​
The carryover from this form of bodyweight training will help you PR all other modalities.​
Click to expand...
Do you know why handstand push-ups aren't part of the SFB online course?
 
pet' said:
Hello,

On the long term, slightly higher rep range build connective tissue (tendons and ligaments), which low rep range does not do. However, the latter build more strength, as @offwidth said. These connective tissue can become a limiting factor to increase strength.

An approach could be to perform the low rep sets, to work on strength, and then, only one set with higher rep, but using an easier variation. This is advocated by A. Salkin (SFG2), but you also find it with R. Edgley.

Kind regards,

Pet'
Click to expand...
I've seen conflicting information about high reps building connective tissues. Isometrics or heavy loading seem to be better options.

Bear in mind this was with older populations but still.

Influence of exercise intensity on training-induced tendon mechanical properties changes in older individuals (nih.gov)

Effects of different duration isometric contractions on tendon elasticity in human quadriceps muscles - Kubo - 2001 - The Journal of Physiology - Wiley Online Library
 
pet' said:
Hello,

On the long term, slightly higher rep range build connective tissue (tendons and ligaments), which low rep range does not do. However, the latter build more strength, as @offwidth said. These connective tissue can become a limiting factor to increase strength.

An approach could be to perform the low rep sets, to work on strength, and then, only one set with higher rep, but using an easier variation. This is advocated by A. Salkin (SFG2), but you also find it with R. Edgley.

Kind regards,

Pet'
Click to expand...
Another option might be to combine a very close approximate isometric effort (or two) combined with higher rep work immediately after.
 
pet' said:
Hello,

Assuming a few things :
- SFB and therefore TNW are principle based,
- Some moves are mentioned in both books (or 'environments').

Then it is possible to just:
- Drop rep/set of CC,
- Applying SF principles (tension, sets/reps, technique) to the CC moves.

We are not - IMHO - obliged to consider that one is better than the other or whatever. We can simply pick up what we want to get the best of both worlds, as long as the 'final product' works well.

The beauty of principles is that we can apply them to what we want.

Kind regards,

Pet'
Click to expand...

With respect, if I have to modify CC with NW principals, I may as well just do NW.
 
Hello,

@NormanOsborn
I undestand what you mean.

To explain you what I did: I just pick the exercises of CC, because they are highly functional. Rep / set, etc... come from TNW. Indeed, as an example, TNW does not provide a progression to get a pull up or HLR (you can find the latter in BPA for instance).

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
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