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Bodyweight Convict Conditioning vs Naked Warrior

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I tried following CC as written when it came out, and made no progress whatsoever. Least effective training program I've tried.

It almost seems as if the author came up with the concept (break each bodyweight into a progression of 6 steps) and then jammed each movement into that template, without testing the result on anyone. For example, if anyone has evidence of someone making progress on their squatting ability by doing the CC inverted squats, I'd love to hear about it.
 
Why don't we ask these gentlemen?

In Convict Conditioning Paul Wade has laid out a logical and effective “zero to hero” progression in key bodyweight strength exercises and presented a solid training philosophy. Get this book. —Pavel Tsatsouline, author of The Naked Warrior

"To paraphrase a famous political quote: "It's the progressions stupid.' Coach Wade has laid out a set of progressions in Convict Conditioning that can lead to mastery of the big 6 bodyweight exercises and you would be wise to listen. This is knowledge proven in "extreme' conditions. So respect the progressions and put in your time—you'll be stronger for it."
— Brett Jones Master RKC, CSCS, CK-FMS

"I DID NOT want to like this book. In fact, I did not even want to read it because of the title. BUT not only do I like this book, I LOVE IT. It is probably the best compilation of callisthenic exercises and training progressions I have seen; reaching all the back to the beginnings of organized bodyweight exercise.
Coach Wade goes to the heart of true training with correct biomechanics, kinesiology and training progressions that so many in the word of physical training just seem to miss these days. Bravo Coach, bravo, an epic book that deserves to be in the library of all who love the world of strength as well as a historical understanding of the foundation of all modern resistance training."
-- Mark Reifkind
 
Adam R Mundorf said:
Why don't we ask these gentlemen?

In Convict Conditioning Paul Wade has laid out a logical and effective “zero to hero” progression in key bodyweight strength exercises and presented a solid training philosophy. Get this book. —Pavel Tsatsouline, author of The Naked Warrior

"To paraphrase a famous political quote: "It's the progressions stupid.' Coach Wade has laid out a set of progressions in Convict Conditioning that can lead to mastery of the big 6 bodyweight exercises and you would be wise to listen. This is knowledge proven in "extreme' conditions. So respect the progressions and put in your time—you'll be stronger for it."
— Brett Jones Master RKC, CSCS, CK-FMS

"I DID NOT want to like this book. In fact, I did not even want to read it because of the title. BUT not only do I like this book, I LOVE IT. It is probably the best compilation of callisthenic exercises and training progressions I have seen; reaching all the back to the beginnings of organized bodyweight exercise.
Coach Wade goes to the heart of true training with correct biomechanics, kinesiology and training progressions that so many in the word of physical training just seem to miss these days. Bravo Coach, bravo, an epic book that deserves to be in the library of all who love the world of strength as well as a historical understanding of the foundation of all modern resistance training."
-- Mark Reifkind
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Well, the exercise progressions and descriptions are pretty cool. :D
 
I read CC for the first time a few months ago and then last week re-read the NW. If my reading comprehension is correct they are very similar in how they both stress form and structure in the workout to be key. However they are on the opposite ends of the spectrum when you compare programming.

CC - Perform two regressive sets for high reps to warm up. Perform two maximum effort work sets without breaking form. Perform each exercise until you can reach 20 reps, and then progress to a more difficult exercise at lower reps. Each muscle group is worked once per week following the recommended program. High intensity and then a long recovery period.

NW - Perform multiple sets of the same two exercises multiple times per week. Keep the intensity low and focus on form, muscle contraction, and breath. Each muscle group is worked multiple times per week. Low intensity but a short recovery period.

My preference is for the Naked Warrior approach. I like feeling fresh after the workout and it works for me in terms of strength gains.
 
Hello,

I agree with the above. They are drastically different in terms of programming. Pavel does not set a specific number of repetitions and sets. I guess this is why it works so well for everybody. In essence, GTG is customized so it will be adapted to you.

Most of the people are fine with Pavel's progressions for pistols and OAP / OAOL PU. However, there are more people who struggle with some Wade's steps. This is the case for OA pull up for example. In all cases, as far as variations are concerned, I guess everyone "has to" find what works.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Both are great books IMO. Convict Conditioning is a fun read and is the book that got me into calisthenics and consistently training overall. It shows that progression is the way to go and that you can do so much with only a pull up bar.
The Naked Warrior goes a little deeper into pure strength production through tension principles (breathing/core/grip/glutes), and that alone is such a solid lesson! The exercices are, like in most of Pavel's books, minimalistic but very efficient.
I'd say, read and enjoy both of them :)
In fact, I just ordered the paperback version of CC yesterday! After reading the ebook for almost a decade I decided to see if I could find a copy in Belgium, and sure enough! No paperback versions of NW (or even S&S) though... Such a shame!
 
Hello,

What @Dries S underlines about minimalism is interesting. Indeed, carefully selected exercises (even within a minimalist program)can get you pretty far. This is true for TNW. However, both pistols and OAP are listed in CC, in addition to other moves (which we find in SFB). CC, in terms of variety covers more than TNW.

I tend to think that we do not have to consider these books as competitors, but as supplement to the other

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
I vote CC but it needs to be adjusted to your person. Some progression steps are awful for example step 6 to 7 for squats or step 6 to 7 pull ups. Naked Warrior is great though. Gtg just doesnt suit my life.

Id recommend a total volume of 15 to 25 reps. 1 to 5 reps per set and 30 to 50 for hypertrophy. Without exceeding 12 reps per set. Dont start hspu and bridges too early. Although imo they are superior to the other 4. I am currently working the basic 4. And intend to master pu, hlr (V) and pistol sq, before adding hspu and bridges.

Bridges did more for my back than deadlifts or swings. Hence why i rate cc and the bridge progression highly.

Im doing cc high frequency low/medium volume atm with lovely results.
 
NormanOsborn said:
I was referring to the specific CC progression for Push Ups which, if memory serves, goes something like: Wall Push Ups, Incline PU's, Half PU's and then various forms of Full PU's before attaining the OAPU.

If you can already do full Push Ups with good form, then Ladders would probably be a better choice. For beginners, the CC method might be better.
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Yeah sorry, I know what you mean. I just think the rep ranges in CC aren't well thought out either.
 
Benjamin Renaud said:
Didn't use to be. NW is still published by DD... I always wondered if SF would get around to doing a NW 2.0 with pulls added to it.
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Second this.

I’d love to see Pavel do a Naked Warrior reboot/refresh, much like he did with S&S revision and the upcoming Easy Strength rework.

The recent article he did on Stew Smith’s site was gold. Would love to see him write more bodyweight articles.
 
Carl said:
Second this.

I’d love to see Pavel do a Naked Warrior reboot/refresh, much like he did with S&S revision and the upcoming Easy Strength rework.

The recent article he did on Stew Smith’s site was gold. Would love to see him write more bodyweight articles.
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Do you have a link to that? I can't seem to find it.
 
I really like CC, but not as a program. CC was my first introduction to the idea that you could be very strong and well rounded on a diet of nothing but calisthenics, and I like the choice of movements. I'm not a strict calisthenics practitioner, but I even now I tend to structure my training around picking a movement from each of those 6 categories. But, I don't buy into the "you must be able to do this step before you even think about doing the next one" thing. And not all the progressions are completely logical. It's an entertaining read, and I think some good ideas in there, but don't take it all as gospel.

I think CC and NW can work together nicely - GTG using CC progressions. I know the wisdom is not to GTG more than 2 things at a time, which is fine too - rotate through them.
 
Well, looks like I'll be doing a version of Naked Warrior; I slipped on ice yesterday and badly staved my left wrist. Nothing broken, but it will be days before I can put any weight on it. So TGU's, Swings etc are out. However, I can do Incline OAPU's on my right.

I'll add in some Convict Conditioning-style Leg Raises as well. This should tide me over until I heal enough to start doing S&S again.
 
NormanOsborn said:
Well, looks like I'll be doing a version of Naked Warrior; I slipped on ice yesterday and badly staved my left wrist. Nothing broken, but it will be days before I can put any weight on it. So TGU's, Swings etc are out. However, I can do Incline OAPU's on my right.

I'll add in some Convict Conditioning-style Leg Raises as well. This should tide me over until I heal enough to start doing S&S again.
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That reminds me.
The naked warrior book had a great bonus for naked warrior hanging leg raises. It is worth a search as it has some good progressions.
 
NormanOsborn said:
Well, looks like I'll be doing a version of Naked Warrior; I slipped on ice yesterday and badly staved my left wrist. Nothing broken, but it will be days before I can put any weight on it. So TGU's, Swings etc are out. However, I can do Incline OAPU's on my right.

I'll add in some Convict Conditioning-style Leg Raises as well. This should tide me over until I heal enough to start doing S&S again.
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Wrist injuries are the worst!

Off topic, but if if helps I'll say that I always switch to forearm-based movements when I have a bum wrist. e.g.- commando rocking, plank variations, etc. \ If you want to train OAPU on the bad side, prehaps consider doing one arm or one arm one leg planks on the forearm?

Happy healing; hope it goes quick.
 
bluejeff said:
Wrist injuries are the worst!

Off topic, but if if helps I'll say that I always switch to forearm-based movements when I have a bum wrist. e.g.- commando rocking, plank variations, etc. \ If you want to train OAPU on the bad side, prehaps consider doing one arm or one arm one leg planks on the forearm?

Happy healing; hope it goes quick.
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Good idea, thanks.

It feels a lot better already. But I'm going to err on the side of caution.
 
I used CC exercise and volume progressions only until the 5th or 6th version of each exercise. After that I switched to S+S and KB strength aerobics. Honestly, if you are getting stronger with KBs, you should be able to practice the OAPU and pistol with no problem.
 
I know the poll or question asked are between two specific programs. But lets toss in @Tom Furman Armor of War (can be found in both of his e-books Armor of War and Train for Life).

In the beginning of the book Tom writes that "the genesis of Armor of War was from two main sources Pavel Tsasouline and Jack Reape".

AoW is a bodyweight program focus on basic moves.
 
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