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Nutrition Collagen Peptides

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I thought I would tag @kennycro@@aol.com and @North Coast Miller on this one specifically. You two gentlemen often seem to have your fingers on relevant research and data on nutritional topics. But obviously anyone can feel free to chime in.

I am curious about any research and information on the use and efficacy of Collagen Peptides on tendon health. Both post injury or as a prophylactic.

Thanks...
 
offwidth said:
...any research and information on the use and efficacy of Collagen Peptides on tendon health.
Click to expand...

Dr, Keith Baar Research


mTOR

The first part of this interview goes into mTOR; which is the anabolic trigger for muscle growth.

The "mTOR Switch" is metaphorically speaking turned with...

1) Exercise: Certain Type

2) Diet: A Certain Amount of Leucine (amino acid) consumed.

Connective Tissue

At around the 36 minute mark of this interveiw, Baar goes into how to incease or maintain Connective Tissue Strength, health.

1) Collagen Intake Amount and Time is examined.

As Baar notes, a small amount of Vitamine C combined with Collage is necessary for optimal results.

On a personal note, I used a Collage Supplement, adding Vitamine C.

However, I switched to eating Sugar Free Jello (Gelatin) with some Vitamne C added; which appear to have worked well.

Jello is a good source of Collage, as you probably know.

2) Connetive Tissue Strength Building Exercises

Baar examine the exercises that are the most effective at increasing Connetive Tissue Stregth. health.

Connetive Tissue Exercises

Exercises with slow movments are the most effective.

1) Maximum Strength

2) Isometric Actions

Exercise That Stress Connetive Tissue

Plyometric Movements/Stretch Reflex Movements.

As you know, when violently stretched, Connective Tissue elicits a Rubber Band Effect; when the Rubber Band is stretch it pop back with Power/Force.

Connetive Tissue respond in the same way.

Repeatedly Stretching The Rubber Band

Continueously, streching the Rubber Band eventully wears it down over time. At some point, it is going to pop.

The same occurs with continueous Plyometric Training; the Connnective Tissue is repeatedly stretched.

The Irony

The only way to increase Explosive Strech Reflex Power is with Plyometric Movements.

Thus, Plyometric Training needs to be part of most athletes training

Countering Negative Connetive Tissue Issue

As per Baar's research...

1) Connetive Tissue Strength Training

Slow Srength Training Exercises increase Connetive Tissue Strength, health.

Nothing is as slow than an Isometric with no movement.

2) Collagen with Vitamine C added optimizes Connective Tissue Strength, health.

To reiterate, I have found Jello (Gelatin) with some Vitamine C works.

www.healthline.com

Collagen vs. Gelatin: Which to Choose?

Collagen is the most abundant protein in your body, while gelatin is a degraded form of collagen. This article reviews collagen and gelatin's main differences and similarities to help you decide which to choose.
www.healthline.com www.healthline.com

These similar proteins have virtually identical nutritional profiles, as is demonstrated in the following table, which compares 2 tablespoons (14 grams) of dried and unsweetened collagen and gelatin (7Trusted Source, 8Trusted Source):

CollagenGelatin
Calories5047
Protein12 grams12 grams
Carbs0 grams0 grams
Fat0 grams0 grams

As you can see, both collagen and gelatin comprise almost 100% protein and provide practically the same amount of this nutrient per serving.
 
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kennycro@@aol.com said:
Dr, Keith Baar Research


mTOR

The first part of this interview goes into mTOR; which is the anabolic trigger for muscle growth.

The "mTOR Switch" is metaphorically speaking turned with...

1) Exercise: Certain Type

2) Diet: A Certain Amount of Leucine (amino acid) consumed.

Connective Tissue

At around the 36 minute mark of this interveiw, Baar goes into how to incease or maintain Connective Tissue Strength, health.

1) Collagen Intake Amount and Time is examined.

As Baar notes, a small amount of Vitamine C combined with Collage is necessary for optimal results.

On a personal note, I used a Collage Supplement, adding Vitamine C.

However, I switched to eating Sugar Free Jello (Gelatin) with some Vitamne C added; which appear to have worked well.

Jello is a good source of Collage, as you probably know.

2) Connetive Tissue Strength Building Exercises

Baar examine the exercises that are the most effective at increasing Connetive Tissue Stregth. health.

Connetive Tissue Exercises

Exercises with slow movments are the most effective.

1) Maximum Strength

2) Isometric Actions

Exercise That Stress Connetive Tissue

Plyometric Movements/Stretch Reflex Movements.

As you know, when violently stretched, Connective Tissue elicits a Rubber Band Effect; when the Rubber Band is stretch it pop back with Power/Force.

Connetive Tissue respond in the same way.

Repeatedly Stretching The Rubber Band

Continueously, streching the Rubber Band eventully wears it down over time. At some point, it is going to pop.

The same occurs with continueous Plyometric Training; the Connnective Tissue is repeatedly stretched.

The Irony

The only way to increase Explosive Strech Reflex Power is with Plyometric Movements.

Thus, Plyometric Training needs to be part of most athletes training

Countering Negative Connetive Tissue Issue

As per Baar's research...

1) Connetive Tissue Strength Training

Slow Srength Training Exercises increase Connetive Tissue Strength, health.

Nothing is as slow than an Isometric with no movement.

2) Collagen with Vitamine C added optimizes Connective Tissue Strength, health.

To reiterate, I have found Jello (Gelatin) with some Vitamine C works.

www.healthline.com

Collagen vs. Gelatin: Which to Choose?

Collagen is the most abundant protein in your body, while gelatin is a degraded form of collagen. This article reviews collagen and gelatin's main differences and similarities to help you decide which to choose.
www.healthline.com www.healthline.com

These similar proteins have virtually identical nutritional profiles, as is demonstrated in the following table, which compares 2 tablespoons (14 grams) of dried and unsweetened collagen and gelatin (7Trusted Source, 8Trusted Source):

CollagenGelatin
Calories5047
Protein12 grams12 grams
Carbs0 grams0 grams
Fat0 grams0 grams

As you can see, both collagen and gelatin comprise almost 100% protein and provide practically the same amount of this nutrient per serving.
Click to expand...


How much Jello do you use for a dose?

@offwidth
I've listened to and read Dr Barr's research, some of the other studies as well as stuff from the running community where it has been used for a long time.

My conclusion is that I should be supplementing with gelatin or collagen depending on price. I don't know the magnitude of effect person to person, but it has proven benefit.
 
North Coast Miller said:
How much Jello do you use for a dose?
Click to expand...
Jello Mix

I mix two .44 oz (small boxes of jello) with a total of 3 cups of water instead of a total 4 cups.

I use 3 cups because I prefer it to be more solid.

I mix in a 1 gram of Vitamine C Power.

Cost of the small boxes of Jello, where I live is 49 cents.

Dose

I don't have any dose.

At one time, I was mixing Collage Poweder into my Jello.

I stopped mixing the Collgen Powder into my Jello. Since that worked, I didn't see any point in buying the Collagen Powder.

I just eat it at the end of my meals, as a dessert or as a in between meal snack.

Shoulder Joint Issue

I had a shoulder joint issue. It is only a minor issue now.

The combined Jello and Isometric work really helped.

I believe (meaning I am guessing) that as with most things, the long term consistent consumpiton of the Jello and Isomtric work is responsible for the improvement in my shoulder issue.
offwidth said:
I knew you were the right guy to ask
Click to expand...
Dr. Keith Baar

Baar is the guy on this.

I'd recommend listening to the Baar interview a few time.

Most people pick up things that they missed the first time.

Also, learning is a repetitive process; it is a form of brainwashing, which isn't all bad.

Like learning your multiplication tabels or ABCs.
 
IMayAgainKnowChris said:
Used to roast a ton of marrow bones before I’d make broth. Roommates HATED me. Never tried the knuckles though. Good idea.
Click to expand...
Marrow bones you get your butcher to saw in half, bake and eat with a spoon. You will not get much, if any gelatin from marrow bones. Knuckles/joints have most of the collagen/gelatin, and are half the price or less. Knuckles for broth.
 
North Coast Miller said:
If one was to supplement with collagen protein, do you count that as part of your daily protein macros or is it more like supplementing with a bunch of aminos?
Click to expand...
Last collagen supplement I used was Ancient Nutrition grass fed collagen honey/vanilla, went in the blender with goat milk, raw eggs, and whey concentrate. I did not add the 10 grams per serve to my protein total for the day, so a long answer to your question. I used it like a bunch of aminos.

As you know, it isn't a complete protein. I used it for the extra glycine and proline.
 
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Hello @kennycro@@aol.com , I'd love to hear your thoughts with regards to fasting and healing an injury. More specifically a tendinopathy. Do you think fasting would be beneficial in any way? I've read research about fasting and wound healing but haven't found any yet on healing tendinopathy (acute/reactive, chronic or degenerative).

Thank you for any info you can share.

EDIT: This being the research I've read for now.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Fasting before or after wound injury accelerates wound healing through the activation of pro-angiogenic SMOC1 and SCG2

Healing of the chronic diabetic ulceration and large burns remains a clinical challenge. Therapeutic fasting has been shown to improve health. Our study tested whether fasting facilitates diabetic and burn wound healing and explored the underlying mechanism.Methods: ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
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I don't have any studies/papers to send you, only my own experiences.
Five day water, coffee, salt fast in Sept. 2019. Several nagging sore spots disappeared and next several months of training were good After this fast I also eliminated most oxalate containing foods.
Seven day water, coffee, salt fast Nov. 2020, did not notice any difference post fast. Maybe the oxalates were the difference the first go - round. You could try your own experiment

Dr. Mindy Pelz has a Fasting Benefits Chart, ( what happens when ) that you might find helpful.
 
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Don Fairbanks said:
I don't have any studies/papers to send you, only my own experiences.
Five day water, coffee, salt fast in Sept. 2019. Several nagging sore spots disappeared and next several months of training were good After this fast I also eliminated most oxalate containing foods.
Seven day water, coffee, salt fast Nov. 2020, did not notice any difference post fast. Maybe the oxalates were the difference the first go - round. You could try your own experiment

Dr. Mindy Pelz has a Fasting Benefits Chart, ( what happens when ) that you might find helpful.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I'll look up Dr. Pelz.

I never tried eliminating anything from my diet except grains and legumes when doing Paleo/Primal. I didn't notice any difference in my health or wellbeing at the time. Oxalates is something I eat plenty of though. Maybe I should try a rotation/elimination diet at some point.
 
Benjamin Renaud said:
Thanks, I'll look up Dr. Pelz.

I never tried eliminating anything from my diet except grains and legumes when doing Paleo/Primal. I didn't notice any difference in my health or wellbeing at the time. Oxalates is something I eat plenty of though. Maybe I should try a rotation/elimination diet at some point.
Click to expand...
Oxalates: Sally K. Norton, web site ( her name ) and many podcasts.
 
BJJ Shawn said:
I have never heard of oxalates, so I decided to look it up. You lost me when I saw number two on the list:

"Foods high in oxalate include:

Beans.
Beer..."
Click to expand...
Yep, sweet potatoes, spinach, blk. pepper, avocado, pineapple, dried fruit, nuts, etc
 
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