Kettlebell "Giant 1.0"

[Anth]

Coming up to the last week of Giant 2.0 (after 1.0, 1.1, 1.2) with double 20kg bells. Now have another 24kg on order ready to progress onwards.

What are your thoughts on 2.0? I’m a bit behind you right now. I’m midway through 1.1 with double 20s, and I plan on progressing to 1.2. After that, I’m debating on whether I should do 2.0 with the double 20s, or jump to 1.0 with the double 24s. What’s the benefit of doing 2.0 if you can handle sets of 8 and 9?

 

[blad51]

@Anth
I know you directed this question to Essexman....but I thought I'd chime in with my unsolicited opinion.

I am finishing 1.1 this week and starting 1.2 next Monday. I am doing the 1.0, 2.0, 1.1, 1.2 progression with 28s.

There's a lot of value to 2.0. Many people say it's their favorite phase of The Giant. I really enjoyed the 2.0 ladders.

If you are planning on running The Giant with the 24s, 2.0 will help you solidify your gains from the previous phase of The Giant.

 

[Anth]

@Anth
I know you directed this question to Essexman....but I thought I'd chime in with my unsolicited opinion.

I am finishing 1.1 this week and starting 1.2 next Monday. I am doing the 1.0, 2.0, 1.1, 1.2 progression with 28s.

There's a lot of value to 2.0. Many people say it's their favorite phase of The Giant. I really enjoyed the 2.0 ladders.

If you are planning on running The Giant with the 24s, 2.0 will help you solidify your gains from the previous phase of The Giant.

So, if I understand correctly, you do 2.0 after 1.0 to help bridge the gap to the 7-8 rep range? I’m in my second week of 1.1 and I just made a pretty big jump in reps without too much stress, so I probably don’t need 2.0 with the 20s. But when I start with the 24s, it might be beneficial after 1.0.

Does that sound right?

 

[blad51]

@Anth You've got it. In the progression that goes 1.0 to 2.0, 2.0 helps you make the transition to higher reps of 1.1 and 1.2.

Your plan of skipping 2.0 and starting 1.0 with 24s will work if the 24k bells are now your 10 RM bells.

However, I am very conservative when I progress to heavier bells. I want to squeeze all of the gains out of a pair of KBs before I move up. I believe this strategy has kept me relatively injury free.

I think you should still consider running 2.0. It's only 4 weeks. It's auto-regulated so using density, you can make the program as challenging as you like.

 

[Essexman]

What are your thoughts on 2.0? I’m a bit behind you right now. I’m midway through 1.1 with double 20s, and I plan on progressing to 1.2. After that, I’m debating on whether I should do 2.0 with the double 20s, or jump to 1.0 with the double 24s. What’s the benefit of doing 2.0 if you can handle sets of 8 and 9?

My first time using Giant so I've followed as written 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 2.0
Each time I started a new round it was hard, but after the first week I seemed to find my way and adapt.
It's funny looking back at the reps from start that seemed really challenging which later become easy.
Same when I started 2.0, I found the ladders difficult at first, compared to fixed reps. Now near the end I'm enjoying the change.
Moving on to 24kgs next I my insert 2.0 after 1.0, or 1.1 as @blad51 has suggested as it would ease one into the higher reps.

 

[Essexman]

What are your thoughts on 2.0? I’m a bit behind you right now. I’m midway through 1.1 with double 20s, and I plan on progressing to 1.2. After that, I’m debating on whether I should do 2.0 with the double 20s, or jump to 1.0 with the double 24s. What’s the benefit of doing 2.0 if you can handle sets of 8 and 9?

Just seen I didn't really answer all of the question. I guess the answer for jumping up to 2x24kgs is ....it depends.
Let me explain, we are all different, you can do what seems correct for you, but that may not suit me, and so on. I'm in my mid 50s, I train to try and keep fit and stay fit, I have a few injuries from years gone by, I don't always sleep well which impacts my recovery. So for me, I'll be taking it gently with no risk of hurting myself, I'm in no rush.
I'm sure that if you jump up to 2x24kgs too early you will know about it in the first few sessions and can change direction if required.

 

[John Grahill]

What are your thoughts on 2.0? I’m a bit behind you right now. I’m midway through 1.1 with double 20s, and I plan on progressing to 1.2. After that, I’m debating on whether I should do 2.0 with the double 20s, or jump to 1.0 with the double 24s. What’s the benefit of doing 2.0 if you can handle sets of 8 and 9?

Just my experience(s) here. I've done the 2.0 first then the 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 my first time through. Worked well. I then jumped up in weight and did the 1.0 then the 2.0 and 1.1 and 1.2. It also worked.

The benefit of doing the 2.0 after the 1 series that I can see is actually more overall volume and reps in any given session. The first two rungs of each ladder would add to the overall volume pretty easily.

No expert here and your mileage may vary.

 

[Anth]

Lot of good info here. I like the idea of using 2.0 to solify gains. Though I have no problem getting through the sets of 8, I do feel like I need to recover better or else I get that over-training creep. Maybe 2.0 before I jump to 1.2 to help practice higher volume.

One question about making an adjustment. Typically, I rest about 3 to 3.5 minutes after each big set (6, 7, or 8). Looking at the lower rep sets, I'm assuming this means to rest less in order to get more volume. How do people manage these? Looking at 3, 4, 5, for example, do people rest 1 minute between each? Or might it be better to do a quick, 15 second rest between each set, then 3-4 minutes between each ladder? Sorry if that sounds confusing.

TL;DR I'm interested to know how people manage rest for 2.0. This is coming from someone who likes to use 3 to 3.5 minute rests between the bigger sets of 6, 7, and 8.

Thanks!

 

[John Grahill]

Lot of good info here. I like the idea of using 2.0 to solify gains. Though I have no problem getting through the sets of 8, I do feel like I need to recover better or else I get that over-training creep. Maybe 2.0 before I jump to 1.2 to help practice higher volume.

One question about making an adjustment. Typically, I rest about 3 to 3.5 minutes after each big set (6, 7, or 8). Looking at the lower rep sets, I'm assuming this means to rest less in order to get more volume. How do people manage these? Looking at 3, 4, 5, for example, do people rest 1 minute between each? Or might it be better to do a quick, 15 second rest between each set, then 3-4 minutes between each ladder? Sorry if that sounds confusing.

TL;DR I'm interested to know how people manage rest for 2.0. This is coming from someone who likes to use 3 to 3.5 minute rests between the bigger sets of 6, 7, and 8.

Thanks!

Just my experience but I gave up worrying about rest periods between sets. You'll obviously need less in the low rep sets in the beginning of the ladders and you'll likely find you'll need less from the top of the ladder to the start because it'll be a lot less rep-wise than the peak of the ladder.

I gave up worrying about rest between sets for the most part. People overfixate if that's the term over the rest periods. Case in point in my own experience was the "challenge" Geoff gave me a couple of years ago ... 10x10 of double 32 kg clean and presses. I was "allowed" 5 minutes rest between sets which I remembered thinking was exorbitant! ***** Until I tried it! By the 7th round I was as exhausted as heck and couldn't wait for it to be over! If I had "rushed" the rest periods I'd have never completed it!

I've said it before, just do it and trust the process from Geoff.

 

[Anth]

Just my experience but I gave up worrying about rest periods between sets. You'll obviously need less in the low rep sets in the beginning of the ladders and you'll likely find you'll need less from the top of the ladder to the start because it'll be a lot less rep-wise than the peak of the ladder.

I gave up worrying about rest between sets for the most part. People overfixate if that's the term over the rest periods. Case in point in my own experience was the "challenge" Geoff gave me a couple of years ago ... 10x10 of double 32 kg clean and presses. I was "allowed" 5 minutes rest between sets which I remembered thinking was exorbitant! ***** Until I tried it! By the 7th round I was as exhausted as heck and couldn't wait for it to be over! If I had "rushed" the rest periods I'd have never completed it!

I've said it before, just do it and trust the process from Geoff.

What I usually do is look at the timer when I put the bells down and count back 3 minutes. Then when I get to that point I assess whether I’m ready or not. Sometimes I rest a few seconds less, sometimes I push it to 4 minutes. I’m not fixed BUT I like to have a general plan, otherwise I feel like I rush too soon and don’t rest enough.

 

[Essexman]

@

Lot of good info here. I like the idea of using 2.0 to solify gains. Though I have no problem getting through the sets of 8, I do feel like I need to recover better or else I get that over-training creep. Maybe 2.0 before I jump to 1.2 to help practice higher volume.

One question about making an adjustment. Typically, I rest about 3 to 3.5 minutes after each big set (6, 7, or 8). Looking at the lower rep sets, I'm assuming this means to rest less in order to get more volume. How do people manage these? Looking at 3, 4, 5, for example, do people rest 1 minute between each? Or might it be better to do a quick, 15 second rest between each set, then 3-4 minutes between each ladder? Sorry if that sounds confusing.

TL;DR I'm interested to know how people manage rest for 2.0. This is coming from someone who likes to use 3 to 3.5 minute rests between the bigger sets of 6, 7, and 8.

Thanks!

I don't time anything apart from the session length. I set my timer on my phone and turn the screen off. This took me a while to get used to.
It was difficult again with ladder sets, I pace around my garden until I feel ready to go again. With the ladder sets each rest period will differ.

 

[TedM]

It's almost as if @Geoff Neupert is writing his newsletter articles with us in mind lately.....

BTW, Geoff's stretch has been very helpful and I've also found hangs to help too. The tendon was feeling tight and doing hangs throughout the week, in conjunction with the stretch, has me close to pain free.

 

[blad51]

Giant 1.1 is complete!! Next up Giant 1.2.

Giant 1.1 is a great program. During Giant 1.1, I continued to learn how to manage fatigue during late session sets with the high number of reps. It is interesting to me how the difference of two reps between light day and heavy day changes everything. On light day, I feel like no matter where I am in my recovery, I probably could pop out another set. By the time Week 4 rolled around I started to feel that way about the medium day rep scheme. Heavy day…..not so much. I have to fully recover between sets on heavy day.

I am ready for 1.2. Though, I am conscious of the 1.2 rep scheme as I begin this program. Not worried, not nervous, I am conscious of the difference in the rep scheme between Giant 1.1. and 1.2. I know that I ready for the 1.2 rep scheme. BRING IT ON!!!!

Results:

I did Giant 1.1 with 2x28 bells using the 20, 25, 30, 25 timing structure. Here are my totals for Giant 1.1:

Giant 1.1 totals: 81 sets/552 lifts
Week 4 totals: 22 sets/ 149 lifts
Week 3 totals: 24 sets/ 164 lifts
Week 2 totals: 19 sets/130 lifts
Week 1 totals: 16 sets/109 lifts

Giant 2 totals: 43 ladders/600 lifts
Week 4 totals: 11.1 ladders/ 159 lifts
Week 3 totals: 12.2 Ladders/ 169 lifts
Week 3 over 2: 2.1 Ladders and 26 lifts
Week 1 totals: 9 Ladders/129 lifts

Giant 1 Totals: 133 sets/642 lifts
Week 4: 35 sets/169 lifts
Week 3: 38 sets/183 lifts
Week 2: 32 sets/155 lifts
Week 1: 28 sets/135 lifts

 

[jmoran01]

I got Giant X and am planning on doing it as soon as my right shoulder feels better from biceps tendinitis and a slight labrum issue (from throwing a softball on 10/24). I’m getting PT which is helping. I was at 18 kg for my 10 RM before injury. Should I start back up at 18 kg? Or go down to 16 kg and work back up? It’s interesting that the double clean and press doesn’t really aggravate the injury. Pushups do and throwing still hurts a little.

 

[Bkb]

I got Giant X and am planning on doing it as soon as my right shoulder feels better from biceps tendinitis and a slight labrum issue (from throwing a softball on 10/24). I’m getting PT which is helping. I was at 18 kg for my 10 RM before injury. Should I start back up at 18 kg? Or go down to 16 kg and work back up? It’s interesting that the double clean and press doesn’t really aggravate the injury. Pushups do and throwing still hurts a little.

I had this exact same issue last year (impingement, biceps tendinitis, pec minor tendonitis, anterior shoulder pain). Did pt, didn’t benefit much. Started hanging, helped a lot, started doing light Landmine presses, got shoulder to 90%… from there I started very light with ohp, single kb only. Never went back to double out of fear and every time I do I aggravate it.

Before: pressing 71 lb for 3-5 reps

Resumed with 25 lb kb for high reps over multiple weeks. Jumped to 53 lb push presses. Decided not to go heavier than this. Happy to be able to press and never want to go back.

 

[Essexman]

Received my second 24kg this week and couldn’t resist trying it out.
After running 1.0, 1.1,1.2 and 2.0 with 2x20kg I had planned to move up to 2x24kg with ease.
7 reps. Not making excuses, but I wasn’t fully warmed up, and was taken back how different 24s feel compared to 20s!
Planning another play with the 24s tomorrow, but honestly can’t see me gaining 3 reps.
So Giant 3.0 it seems it will be.

 

[Chris Mills]

Received my second 24kg this week and couldn’t resist trying it out.
After running 1.0, 1.1,1.2 and 2.0 with 2x20kg I had planned to move up to 2x24kg with ease.
7 reps. Not making excuses, but I wasn’t fully warmed up, and was taken back how different 24s feel compared to 20s!
Planning another play with the 24s tomorrow, but honestly can’t see me gaining 3 reps.
So Giant 3.0 it seems it will be.

I would probably, were I in your shoes, do 3.0 with the 24’s, unless….. you get 8-reps. Then I’d do 1.0 and take really long rests on the high-rep day.

 

[Bkb]

Received my second 24kg this week and couldn’t resist trying it out.
After running 1.0, 1.1,1.2 and 2.0 with 2x20kg I had planned to move up to 2x24kg with ease.
7 reps. Not making excuses, but I wasn’t fully warmed up, and was taken back how different 24s feel compared to 20s!
Planning another play with the 24s tomorrow, but honestly can’t see me gaining 3 reps.
So Giant 3.0 it seems it will be.

I bet if you continue playing around for a couple days, you’ll be able to get 8 reps.

I’d do this:

1.0 (sure you’ll get less reps but you’ll 100% get to a 10 rm after 4 weeks)
1.0 again
1.1
1.2

 

[Davidlbn]

Received my second 24kg this week and couldn’t resist trying it out.
After running 1.0, 1.1,1.2 and 2.0 with 2x20kg I had planned to move up to 2x24kg with ease.
7 reps. Not making excuses, but I wasn’t fully warmed up, and was taken back how different 24s feel compared to 20s!
Planning another play with the 24s tomorrow, but honestly can’t see me gaining 3 reps.
So Giant 3.0 it seems it will be.

I was recently in a similar situation with a 2x20kg max of 8 reps. So I ran Giant 0.5!
This means my rep scheme was 3's, 4's and 5's.
After 4 weeks my max was 12 reps with 2x20kg and 6 reps with 2x24kg.
I'm currently doing with 2.0 with the 20's.
My goal is 8 reps with 24's at the end, in which case I'll do Giant 0.5 with 24's.
Maybe worth a try?
Edit: if my max was 6 to 7 reps, I'd start with 2's, 3's and 4's.

 

[Essexman]

Last session of 2.0 today with 2x20kg.
Here’s reps per week summary:

Wk1 (20 minutes) 173 reps.
Wk2 (25 minutes) 200 reps.
Wk3 (30 minutes) 233 reps.
Wk4 (25 minutes) 210 reps.

After today’s session I rested for 5 minutes and tried again with 2x24kg, and managed 6reps.
Thanks everyone for the comments and suggestions, greatly appreciated, this is why I like this thread/forum so much.