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Kettlebell 140#KB vs. 225#BB

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Nate

Nate

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I feel a 2-70#KB squat is harder than a 225# barbell squat. So when my friends asked when to transition his middle school kids from kbs to the barbell they'll be getting in school, i thought her should run the kbs until they're not heavy enough. counter arguments?
thanks!
 
With KB you normally do front squats which by themself are "harder" than BB back squats in that sense that you cannot use as much weight as with BB back squats. Then again KBFSQ are "harder" than BB front squats.
Personally I could do BB front squats with 100kg for 5reps but for KBFSQ I can only use 2x28 (or 2x32 with fingers interlaced but that does not count).

In terms of what is better: none, it depends. I use KBs and BW because I do not have a gym membership and train in my appartment.
BB squats allow for the biggest load.
However I feel FSQ are a better option for most people (especially tall guys).
If you do it with KBs or BB depends on the individual and his access to equipement. Like said, the BB allows for a much higher load whereas the KBs dramatically improve the stabilizers and have a great WTH effect (at least for me).
 
It would be interesting to see an emg testing between the barbell front squat and kettlebell squat.
 
Nate said:
I feel a 2-70#KB squat is harder than a 225# barbell squat. So when my friends asked when to transition his middle school kids from kbs to the barbell they'll be getting in school, i thought her should run the kbs until they're not heavy enough. counter arguments?
thanks!
Click to expand...
As long as they’re making progress, stay the course. The summer before HS is soon enough, IMHO.

-S-
 
The barbell is easier to hold and allows for more weight. The midsection is the first to give in in both of the exercises. The barbell one allows to drive the other parts of the body harder due to the bigger weights. That's a big positive for me.

I don't really see the exercises as a progression.
 
This whole subject was clarified nicely by a friend of mine when I expressed my puzzlement at how 2x36kg KB DFSQ could've done so little to prepare me for a barbell back squat of 225x5x3. "You can't make 158lbs "count" like 225lbs by using disadvantaged leverage".
 
Nate said:
I feel a 2-70#KB squat is harder than a 225# barbell squat. So when my friends asked when to transition his middle school kids from kbs to the barbell they'll be getting in school, i thought her should run the kbs until they're not heavy enough. counter arguments?
thanks!
Click to expand...
Well In my opinion 2x32 kb front squats feel harder than 100kg backsquat, but there is no reason to compare those lifts. They are different lifts. Overhead squat is even harder than those two.
Why to move from kbs to barbells when you can use both. I use only kettlebells, but just because it’s practical. Few sets of kettlebells don’t take too much floor space, I can train at home and kbs are very versatile. Russian handheld gym. :)
 
I totaly echoe with @Sauli
Somebody who can do KBFSQ with 2x32kg is more than capable of doing backsquats with 100kg (at leat soeaking from a personal standpoint).
In regards to whuch lift to choose it all comes down to:
-personal preference
-goal setting (if you want to be able to back squat heavy you have to do back squats)
-equipement
 
Marc said:
I totaly echoe with @Sauli
Somebody who can do KBFSQ with 2x32kg is more than capable of doing backsquats with 100kg (at leat soeaking from a personal standpoint).
In regards to whuch lift to choose it all comes down to:
-personal preference
-goal setting (if you want to be able to back squat heavy you have to do back squats)
-equipement
Click to expand...
both available, purely sport performance goals
 
Dan John has written about how the lifts can have more carry over to athletic performance when you actually alternate lifts with running or athletic drills. I wonder if a similar effect can be observed between similar lifts, or if there would just be interference in the patterning? For example, would doing some double kettlebell front squats before back squatting help carry over some of the effects? In one of Pavel's or Dan John's writing I saw that the effect has been observed with isolation exercises and compound movements that emphasize that muscle (eg, leg press alternated with squat).
 
jca17 said:
Dan John has written about how the lifts can have more carry over to athletic performance when you actually alternate lifts with running or athletic drills. I wonder if a similar effect can be observed between similar lifts, or if there would just be interference in the patterning? For example, would doing some double kettlebell front squats before back squatting help carry over some of the effects? In one of Pavel's or Dan John's writing I saw that the effect has been observed with isolation exercises and compound movements that emphasize that muscle (eg, leg press alternated with squat).
Click to expand...
I've seen that apply in some cases. if chore is your weak point in the back squat, heavy goblet could help that. i see it with deadlift the most. people can't stabilize core and activate posterior chain in a compound movement so we regress them back to isolation movements to address both and then reintroduce compound.
 
I have read somewhere that you only earn the right to squat if you can do 1/2bw goblet squat for 25 reps. Unfortunately I cannot recal who wrote it but I would say it makes perfectly sense.
 
Marc said:
I have read somewhere that you only earn the right to squat if you can do 1/2bw goblet squat for 25 reps. Unfortunately I cannot recal who wrote it but I would say it makes perfectly sense.
Click to expand...
Dr. John Rusin had an article saying that on T-Nation.
 
Marc said:
I have read somewhere that you only earn the right to squat if you can do 1/2bw goblet squat for 25 reps. Unfortunately I cannot recal who wrote it but I would say it makes perfectly sense.
Click to expand...

No. You don't have to "earn the right" to do Jack Spit from any self-important movement guru with a set of restrictions he likes to stick between you and effective training. Especially considering the fundamentally different mechanics of a Goblet squat and a barbell back squat - never let someone tell you that.
 
@Marc, it's not a bad idea to be able to do a good goblet squat before moving on to heavier things. I'd be a little kinder and say if you could do 10 reps with any weight you want while keeping your lumbar spine in good position and getting below parallel, you should feel OK about moving on to a more challenging squat.

The reason we like the goblet squat to be OK first is that it gives you a bit of help by allowing the counterbalance of the kettlebell (or dumbbell, if you like) but then we insist that your squat form be solid.

If the goblet squat is difficult to maintain good form with, then go back to a supported squat where you hold onto something, e.g., the upright of a power rack, while you find your nice, deep squat position with an upright spine.

Hope that helps.

-S-
 
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