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Bodyweight 200 pushups CONSECUTIVE!!! Rudnev again HOW does he do this???

superendurance

Level 5 Valued Member
First off, thanks for your giving your perspective. I stand behind the points I made in my response towards you, but I concede that I may have sounded overly hostile. Should that have been the case, I apologize.

have @Kenny Croxdale in very high regard with his complete and extended awnsers in a lot of posts.
That's fair. I just find it incredibly condescending and arrogant to call the training of a multiple world champion "idiotic". The other thing I'm criticizing is his condescending behaviour towards anyone who disagrees with him.

I'm not saying 200 push up's is not impressive, but I think it's on the same line of the world record plank (9 hours and 1 minute). Which is an awesome feat, but not necessary for any sport.

I see what you're saying. However, when we get into feats of extreme strength or endurance, they are hardly ever necessary for any sport. It it not necessary for a basketball player, wrestler, soccer player, dancer etc. to deadlift triple bodyweight, do a one arm pull up, do 200 pushups, do 100 kettlebell snatches in 5 minutes and so on and so forth. Per definition, anything we would deem "impressive" usually goes beyond what's considered general physical preparation for most sports.

I'm not an GS trainer, but if I wanted to train my lock-out (assume this is the goal watching the video) I would have done a vertical excercise, maybe handstand push up, because the mechanics (in lock-out) are more similair to the jerk position then push ups (vertical vs horizontal) or do fewer jerks with heavy weight, so the competitio

No offense, but the man is a five time world champion and has coached nine other world champions. I don't know what his rationale for the pushups was, but as a layperson I can just assume he knows what he's doing.

People who tent to do longer work sets, have more difficulty to attain the tension which is needed for a single max effort.

This is true. However, let's think logically for second. 405 is about 95% of 425. Do you really think the person in question could lift 95 percent of their 1RM for 20 reps? Like I said, it completely defies logic. My best guess is that the statement was hyperbole.
 

Steve W.

Level 7 Valued Member
I actually watched the whole video (whereas I can't stand to watch long sets of KB ballistics, Hard Style or GS). I found it kind of fascinating because of the unusual technique, which he varies slightly on many reps, and because as an overall feat I think it's pretty badass.

I don't really care why he did it, and I'm a bit baffled by the dismissive comments.
 

marvinthemartian

Level 5 Valued Member
This is true. However, let's think logically for second. 405 is about 95% of 425. Do you really think the person in question could lift 95 percent of their 1RM for 20 reps? Like I said, it completely defies logic. My best guess is that the statement was hyperbole.

It may be hyperbole but if you spend a lot of time improving your 20RM and then test your 1RM without properly peaking for it you will probably get really wacky and unreliable numbers.

From work I know an older former competitive bodybuilder who has almost exclusively done multiple sets of higher reps to failure since he started lifting in his teens and never bothered with low reps or 1RM. His lifetime 1RM PR in the bench and back squat are a bit over 200kg/440 lbs when he was massive and now in his late 40s and at a bodyweight of 90kg/200lbs he has never done more than 180kg/400lbs in either of them. He still manages to work up to 20 rep squat sets in the low 140kg/300lbs range a couple times a year though. 78% of your "1RM" for 20 reps after multiple 20 reps before that might not be as extreme. But still pretty wild if you just look at the numbers and don't take into account that the individual doesn't bother with low reps.
 

BrianM

Level 1 Valued Member
For Dan John's student, I can only imagine that someone who has built a wide enough base to deadlift 405 for 20 reps, has somewhat specialized in higher rep training for a number of months. I am confident with such a wide base of strength 'potential' if you will, that after some basic linear periodization or some other reasonable tapering approach, the same athlete would be at 5plates+ within a reasonable time period for some very 'fast gains' (ie 100lbs in 6 months or something on top of an already arguably intermediate 1rm), that are easily explanable once we take that wide base he had build before and was peaking on to demonstate that unrealized base of strength into acount.

Individual factors vary, but principle remains as far as I can tell.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
That's fair. I just find it incredibly condescending and arrogant to call the training of a multiple world champion "idiotic".
Some people succeed because of their training, others in spite of it. Genetics is a huge factor, …

-S-
 

Steve W.

Level 7 Valued Member
the man is a five time world champion and has coached nine other world champions.
Some people succeed because of their training, others in spite of it. Genetics is a huge factor, …
Are you insinuating that Sergey Rudnev's athletic AND coaching accomplishments are due to genetics and in spite of his training methods? Otherwise, why bring it up in response to a post about Rudnev's accomplishments?

What specific basis do you have for this conclusion? If none, why would you feel the need to post it?

Rudnev also has two articles published here on this very site. Do you dismiss or disavow the content of those articles since in your opinion his success is due to genetics and in spite of his training methods?
 
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superendurance

Level 5 Valued Member
It may be hyperbole but if you spend a lot of time improving your 20RM and then test your 1RM without properly peaking for it you will probably get really wacky and unreliable numbers.

Yes, I agree with the sentiment. I really do have a lot of admiration for Dan John. He's known to use hyperbolic statements to make a point though, I think it's his peculiar humor. I remember him writing about this amazing squat workout he did 30 something years ago. He said he would do it again "as soon as he recovers"...

For Dan John's student, I can only imagine that someone who has built a wide enough base to deadlift 405 for 20 reps, has somewhat specialized in higher rep training for a number of months.

I think the 405 x 20 guy should already be easily able to lift 500. Assuming he hasn't specifically trained for max strength at all, 80% of one rep max is still a lot to pull for 20 reps. My best 1 RM is 500 and my best 20RM 315 - that's 60%, a rather typical ratio I think. Completely agree with what you wrote regarding peaking.
 

Dayz

Level 6 Valued Member
The idea that someone could pull 405 x 20 but only 425 x 1 is pure hyperbole and was probably not meant to be taken seriously. It's absolutely ludicrous and probably just part of Dan John's flamboyant style.

Don't forget Pavel and Dan John often recommend sets of FIVE at only 70-80% to increase 1rm. People like Wendler recommend all out sets of high reps to build top end strength too.

Even just being able to do 5 reps at 405 guarantees 425.
 

Kiacek

Level 7 Valued Member
For what it's worth, Pavel has recommended higher rep programs in the past:
Pavel on 9/4/14 said:
Solomon, provided your knees can take it, do high rep bodyweight only SQs with your heels on boards about 3/4 " thick. Rock bottom, with a pause on the bottom and no bouncing.

Drop me a line when you can do 100 in this manner without too much effort and I will tell you what to do next
And in the Return of the Kettlebell:
Pavel said:
Regardless of their type, light deadlifts done for 2-3x20 two to four times a week build muscle and strength.
Not to mention his Slow Twitch Protocols:

Also, Sergey Rudnev wrote an article for StrongFirst on building up to 100 Pistol Squats:

And Jody Beasley wrote an article for StrongFirst about Pavel's advice on how to pursue his goal of 100 straight pushups using GTG:

Also, I've enjoyed reading the different perspectives everyone has.
 

Steve W.

Level 7 Valued Member
Are you insinuating that Sergey Rudnev's athletic AND coaching accomplishments are due to genetics and in spite of his training methods?
I am not convinced that the video we watched demonstrates something useful for most people.

-S-
Okay.

But since I never stated or implied that it was useful for most people, nor addressed the issue at all (nor does Rudnev himself in the video for that matter), I'm not sure why you quoted my post or addressed this to me.

I asked what basis you had for suggesting that Sergey Rudnev's athletic and coaching accomplishments were in spite of his training methods and instead due to genetics.
 
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John Bye

Level 5 Valued Member
I find there to be lots of interest in this, despite having zero interest in performing 200 consecutive pushups.

Perhaps the most interesting thing is watching the many ways he finds 'rest'- to me, with a background in endurance sport, GS athletes are the masters at this. It's beyond just getting comfortable with discomfort (though there's a hefty dose of that too).

Denis Vasilev seems to do lots of high rep floor presses...
 

Simply strong

Level 4 Valued Member
I am not convinced that the video we watched demonstrates something useful for most people.

-S-
The point of the post was not to recommend it to most people - rather to admire the feat of strength endurance.

Some people succeed because of their training, others in spite of it. Genetics is a huge factor, …
How many athletes have you coached to world championships level? How many of those won gold?
 

Steve W.

Level 7 Valued Member
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