Barbell 5,4,3,2,1 5x a week cycle rather than PTTP 5,3,2 for more volume?

[NonStop]

Hi there,

I've done PTTP for overhead press in the past and I have seen some decent gains. However one criticism Pavel himself has of PTTP for overhead pressing is only just hitting the minimum threshold of 50 weekly reps.

So would it be possibly to up the volume by doing 5,4,3,2,1 cycles 5x a week? this would increase the volume 50% to 75 weeks reps.

I ask I'm really a fan of higher frequency training (like PTTP) but unable to do GTG.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Steve W.]

Yes, but you have to balance frequency, volume, and intensity (%1RM).

You can get away with high frequency and highish intensity if the daily volume is low.

If you want to bump the volume and keep the frequency, you have to modulate the intensity. With 54321, I'd recommend cycling your set of 5 like a PTTP top set, and keep the same weight for the 4321, treating them as back off sets (backing off in volume).

 

[NonStop]

Yes, but you have to balance frequency, volume, and intensity (%1RM).

You can get away with high frequency and highish intensity if the daily volume is low.

If you want to bump the volume and keep the frequency, you have to modulate the intensity. With 54321, I'd recommend cycling your set of 5 like a PTTP top set, and keep the same weight for the 4321, treating them as back off sets (backing off in volume).

Thank you very much for the reply, that's a helluva good idea. I might also drop training to 4 days a week rather than 5 if I feel its a big much, which would still keep the weekly volume at 60 reps, 20% more than 5,3,2 x5 days a week.

 

[LukeV]

I seem to recall that PTTP's recommended 'average' intensity (ie across the waved cycle) is 80%RM. 15 reps @ 80% across four workouts weekly seems consistent with the intention of Prilepin's chart but I would still pay attention to waving and maybe add rest days by reducing frequency to three or even two workouts weekly, every now and then. Alternatively look to a Plan Strong program for the higher volume

 

[Steve Freides]

@NonStop, I think some simple combinations are worth exploring for you. I have done the ROP but with barbell deadlifts instead of kettlebell swings, which could also be expressed at the ROP presses + PTTP deadlifts (and I would do them in that order).

Another PTTP variant I've used is 45-50 deadlifts per week, as with by-the-book PTTP, but portioned out over 3 days, either after presses or on the in-between days. I'd go for doing them after presses. The deadlifts could be 15 total reps (e.g., 5, 5, 3, 2 or even better, 5, 3, 4, 3), 3 days a week, or broken up into light/medium/heavy and either matching or not matching the pressing schedule. E.g., instead of 3 days x 15 reps, do light = 10 reps, medium = 15 reps, heavy = 20-25 reps, all with the same weight.

You really won't go wrong with one press and one pull.

-S-

 

[JeffC]

@NonStop I did PTTP for a while with Bench and Deadlift.

For Deadlift I did 100% x 5 and 90% x 5, and after a few months 100% x 5, 3, 2.

For Bench I did 100% x 5, 90% x 5, and an extra 80% x 5 back off set load and go.

I did this 5 days a week and progressed well in both lifts.

 

[Stefan]

Hello,

You have reinvented an old program from when the press was contested in the Olympics. It would usually have been done with a little less frequency and in some variations pyramiding down as well.

So would it be possibly to up the volume by doing 5,4,3,2,1 cycles 5x a week? this would increase the volume 50% to 75 weeks reps.

Try and see what happens!

 

[Steve W.]

Here's another higher volume PTTP variation I've used (and as far as I know, invented) that I call "inverse progression PTTP":

This is based on a 4 steps forward/3 steps back wave cycle. You increase the top set poundage as in a normal PTTP structured wave cycle. You add volume by adding additional back off sets of 5 reps. But the twist is that you add more back off sets at the beginning of a wave when the poundage is lower, and fewer back off sets at the end of a wave when the poundage is higher. Therefore, the poundage progresses inversely to the volume.

At the beginning of a wave, you add 4 back off sets at 90% of the top set, and drop one back off set for each session in a wave. Then you reset at 4 back off sets at the beginning of the next wave.

Here's what it might look like for barbell MP, based on a 1RM of 155lbs and staying in the range from 65-85%:

Wave 1:
100 x 5/90 x 4 x 5
105 x 5/95 x 3 x 5
110 x 5/100 x 2 x 5
115 x 5/105 x 5

110 x 5/100 x 4 x 5
115 x 5/105 x 3 x 5
120 x 5/110 x 2 x 5
125 x 5/115 x 5

115 x 5/105 x 4 x 5
120 x 5/110 x 3 x 5
125 x 5/115 x 2 x 5
130 x 5/115 or 120 x 5

120 x 5/110 x 4 x 5
125 x 5/115 x 3 x 5
130 x 5/115 or 120 x 2 x 5
135 x 5/120 x 5

Notice that I put a 10lb jump between the start of wave 1 and wave 2, but 5lb jumps between waves 3 and 4. This was just to make the progression fit the range from 65-85% 1RM in four waves. The jumps from session to session and wave to wave don't have to be the same.

I have used this successfully with trap bar DL, although I have never tried it with the press.