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Old Forum 5 x 5 optimal weights

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postnspread

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I've been trying out the 5x5 method with biceps curls and KB squats. I've so far used weights roughly 8RM. Is there an optimal loading in general for strength+hypertrophy or does it depend on the bodypart being targeted?
 
I don't think there's an optimal loading unless it is 'heavier'. And what you can do for 5x5 depends on the exercise, individual strengths, weaknesses, leverages, etc.

I'd say that ~70% or perhaps a rough 8-12RM would create a solid 5x5, if you're using that same weight for all 5 sets.

Very short or very long rest periods would change your numbers too, of course.
 
rule of thumb: start lighter than you think you should and progress slowly, continuing to progress until progress stalls. Then come up with new plan, usually involving a deload of some kind
 
I like the version described in Dinosaur Training where you do two lighter sets then three work sets with a heavier weight. When you are nailing 15 total reps in those work sets, you add weight; if you get less that 12 total reps in those work sets, you take weight off.

Part of the beauty of 5x5, for me, is that it's forgiving. You can make non-optimal loading decisions and still progress. The mix of volume and intensity that you get will cause hypertrophy, strength increases, or both, as long as you're working hard. It's tough to screw up.
 
Power To The People Professional mentions 5 x 5 and the various ways people interpret it, I'm pretty sure, but I can't find a reference to it in the index.  Anyone else know if and where it's mentioned in that book?

Thanks.

-S-
 
Steve, is it possible you're thinking of Dan John's essay on 5 x 5 variations included in "Never Let Go"? I just looked through pttp pro and didn't see anything, and don't remember anything there.  There's some good 5 x 5 related material in BBB as well...
 
Thanks all for the comments and tips.

@Aris. I'm presently using rest periods of ~1.0-1.5 mins.

@ Mark. Just a naive version, fixed weight 5x5 which is what I remembered the programme as being. Didn't realise there were variations incl. the option of deliberately manipulating the weight variable as Rob suggests though I did it in the first exploratory session.

I'll look up Dino Training and Never Let Go.

 

 
 
Well, if you're using the fixed weight version for now, keep at it--back cycling when you can't add weight will work for a while after that, if you're so inclined.

Doing what Rob suggests, 2 warmups and 3 'top' sets, will allow you to progress a bit more heavily just due to lower volume with your working weight.

Something you can do then (you can do it with the '5 working sets' version but it will be a bit more tedious) is to add weight to one set at a time. Thus: 2 warmups, a heavy set, and two backoffs. The next session, do your 2 warmups, two heavy sets, and one backoff. When you can hit the same weight for three sets, increase weight for the first again.

100x5 110x5 120x5x3 sets > 100x5 110x5 130x5 120x5x2 > 100x5 110x5 130x5x2 120x5 > 100x5 110x5 130x5x3 > 100x5 110x5 140x5 130x5x2 etc. etc.

Lots of ways to cook this, the 3-5x3-5 thing that is, simple and focused progression with heavy weights... works.

 
 
It's great when I see anyone committing to train 5x5. It's fun, it's effective, it's simple and you can gain on it for a long time. My advice would be to do it until you're physically or mentally stale.
 
"you can gain on it for a long time". Man, that's really heartening. Biceps showing good results already, quads feel stronger! Some like me may actually require decent volume to up the strength.
 
<a title="View postnspread's profile" href="http://www.strongfirst.com/users/postnspread/">postnspread</a>, 5x5 does not fit kettlebells well, as it requires smaller weight jumps.  You could progress in this manner:

8x3

6x4

5x5

4x6

4x7

3x8

In other words, keep the volume the same and progressively do fewer sets and more reps.  Start with around 5RM.
 
Thanks very much. But if one starts with a ~5RM weight, how can one do 8x3 for the first stage? And at the cycle-end after 3x8, does one return to 8x3 with a higher weight?
 
I'm also curious about the progression that Pavel lays out above.  Why keep the volume constant?  Why not continue 8 sets and wave the load as you increase the reps per set.  This would progressively increase the volume as you do by adding rungs to the ladders in the ROP.
 
Volume remains constant but fatigue increases by increasing set length - compare with Kenneth Jay's mesocycle series in Perfecting the Press.
 
@Samuel and Pavel. Yikes, grovelling apologies, I read/wrote in haste. The (former) Party is never wrong!
 
@James - there are a lot of different ways to skin this cat. Pavel described one way using the constraints given by the original post: 5x5(volume limitation) and kettlebells(fixed load)
 
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