Other/Mixed Aerobic training: Swings done in intervals or LISS?

[bluejeff]

I need to get my stinkin' cardio in and have been procrastinating on it for a long time. Quick and easy question:

Thoughts and experiences on doing either EMOM swings and/or some form of LISS (be it jogging, biking, whatever). Which did you like and why?

Other training is/will be:
Pushup progressions + DL variation ~3-5days/week (low volume, higher frequency)
shoulder prehab ~5 days/week (light and restorative)
low volume/high frequency handstand (re)training (like 10 min or less per day)
squatting/lunging 2-3 days/week

I am open to using some form of lunging and/or step-ups for aerobic training. This comes to mind:

“Step Up” Your Adventure Training | StrongFirst

Do you like good food? I mean really good food? I love great food! Have you ever had an epic meal that was so good you could recall exactly when and where it was, even years later? The best meal I have had in years was during my visit to Italy with my comrades from StrongFirst™ Germany, when...

www.strongfirst.com

Thoughts? Thank you.

 

[Deleted 20758]

I like this kind of cardio the most.

Pavel Tsatsouline Explains How to Build Endurance the Right Way | BOXROX

 

[Adachi]

I need to get my stinkin' cardio in and have been procrastinating on it for a long time. Quick and easy question:

Thoughts and experiences on doing either EMOM swings and/or some form of LISS (be it jogging, biking, whatever). Which did you like and why?

Other training is/will be:
Pushup progressions + DL variation ~3-5days/week (low volume, higher frequency)
shoulder prehab ~5 days/week (light and restorative)
low volume/high frequency handstand (re)training (like 10 min or less per day)
squatting/lunging 2-3 days/week

I am open to using some form of lunging and/or step-ups for aerobic training. This comes to mind:

“Step Up” Your Adventure Training | StrongFirst

Do you like good food? I mean really good food? I love great food! Have you ever had an epic meal that was so good you could recall exactly when and where it was, even years later? The best meal I have had in years was during my visit to Italy with my comrades from StrongFirst™ Germany, when...

www.strongfirst.com

Thoughts? Thank you.

so, my cardio of choice lately has been what I call the step & carry, and the kettlebell mile.

STEP & CARRY
I use a very low step of a curb outside the office, in the parking lot.
I find a safe spot in that striped area next to the handicapped space that no one ever uses.
I currently use the 24kg I have stashed under my desk.

I do steps as fast as is comfortable and I alternate.

1. suitcase carry L
2. Unloaded
3. suitcase carry R
4. Unloaded
5. Repeat

started with 20-second segments for 30 minutes
and currently at 30-second segments for 30 minutes

I do the same thing at home sometimes, but with the 16kg bell I step onto the first step on our staircase inside, and I alternate hands, without doing unloaded segments.
so, at home, it's just...

1. 20s suitcase carry L
2. 20s suitcase carry R
3. Repeat

accumulate 30 minutes.
at home, I'm subject to certain interruptions.

when I do it I target 30 minutes total time and a sustained heart rate of around 130-140bpm.
I also try to avoid burn in the forearms, hence the loaded and unloaded steps.
get that work-rest-ratio dosing right and it kinda sings difficulty-wise. challenging but doable.


KETTLEBELL MILE
I have also been including a kettlebell mile at work from time to time, but for me - that is not what I would consider in the pocket of the intensity level I'm seeking for aerobic work.

I can use periodic segments and recover with rests to bring it back within the talk test.
but, i still experience basically max heart rate using a 24kg bell and taking breaks.
a worth shock to the system? maybe. not not in the money range for training effects right now. so for now it's a side dish for me.
takes me about 30 minutes of work plus rest to cover 1.25 miles.

OVERALL
I'm definitely improving but, I'm considering throwing these options in the trash and replacing them with IRON CARDIO because that style of training for a few months last year proved fruitful for me. and it may have been just as effective as my current A+A diet of training for the reasons I seek it. I'm just following through on my intended program at this point.

But, anyways. but I'm trying to get over my allergic reactions to cardio for now.

I hope this is helpful.

P.S.

I do intend to try this protocol I'm working on out of the Strong endurance manual, in the near future.

My Version looks like ...

• 16kg bell (currently at Simple levels of strength or so)
• 10 swings EMOM
• 20 - 30 - 40 minutes

Not sure it'll do what I'm hoping it will do, but I intend to try and work on it.

 

[james_1127]

I use swings, snatches, & jerks as my primary cardio and have years.... A+A, Q&D, and plan 060/snatch walking

that gives you cardiac output (LISS) with snatch walking and plan 060, you get moderate type lactic intervals with Q&D, and A+A works the alactic system

I've recently changed up my A+A training towards Joel Jameson alactic capacity interval model.... essentially 3 10-12min EMOM series
1H or 2H swings x7 reps OTM for 10-12 min (thats a series) I take an 8min break then restart the series again... I wave between doing 1,2,or 3 series a workout

 

[John K]

I need to get my stinkin' cardio in and have been procrastinating on it for a long time. Quick and easy question:

Thoughts and experiences on doing either EMOM swings and/or some form of LISS (be it jogging, biking, whatever). Which did you like and why?

Other training is/will be:
Pushup progressions + DL variation ~3-5days/week (low volume, higher frequency)
shoulder prehab ~5 days/week (light and restorative)
low volume/high frequency handstand (re)training (like 10 min or less per day)
squatting/lunging 2-3 days/week

I am open to using some form of lunging and/or step-ups for aerobic training. This comes to mind:

“Step Up” Your Adventure Training | StrongFirst

Do you like good food? I mean really good food? I love great food! Have you ever had an epic meal that was so good you could recall exactly when and where it was, even years later? The best meal I have had in years was during my visit to Italy with my comrades from StrongFirst™ Germany, when...

www.strongfirst.com

Thoughts? Thank you.

Most important is what you are looking to get out of the training and what you will be most consistent doing. Doing both doesn't seem to be that bad of an option either.

 

[bluejeff]

Most important is what you are looking to get out of the training and what you will be most consistent doing. Doing both doesn't seem to be that bad of an option either.

Yeah, my first thought was to just cycle through various forms of "cardio" training. I would like to see what happens if I do the often prescribed 150 minutes per week of aerobic training. Doing lower volume strength training then doing 20-30 minutes of cardio at the end for 5 days/week sounds good.

i realize that sounds a lot like S&S, but TGUs just don't do it for me.... I enjoyed the format of Q&D and the "HIRT for hypertrophy" plan but need to work back towards safe power pushups/pressing after some shoulder "dysfunction." So for that portion, slow and controlled grinds it is.

 

[Halfakneecap]

I need to get my cardio in this year as well. I’m doing the swing progression from a strong first article called “deadlifting and swings, a match made in heaven”, super simple EMOM style. Never goes longer than 10 mins.

I like it because there’s no thinking and when it’s easy, add reps until 10 reps and then add minutes ( or vice versa ) til 10 mins x 10 reps then when it’s easy, add weight and go back to 5reps x 5mins. Rinse and repeat all year ( my plan ).


Somehow I always end up trying to do too much, so right now ( I’ve just started it ) I’m doing 5reps x 6min. Super easy now, and quick obviously, but I’m planning to slowly build it up over the course of the year.

It’s so simple and quick, I don’t have any excuse not to get it done at least once a week without affecting my main strength program, and even if I take all year, if I can get to 10 reps EMOM with my 32, I think my conditioning will at least be decent. Much better than now anyway !

 

[Dayz]

People will do anything to avoid actually training their aerobic systems optimally. If you care about it and it's a priority, LISS by an absolute MILE (pardon the pun).

 

[John K]

Yeah, my first thought was to just cycle through various forms of "cardio" training. I would like to see what happens if I do the often prescribed 150 minutes per week of aerobic training. Doing lower volume strength training then doing 20-30 minutes of cardio at the end for 5 days/week sounds good.

I spent about 2 years doing ~20-30 min of kettlebells and then 30-40 minutes walk or slow run. It makes for a good combo.

 

[offwidth]

Run

 

[GovernorSilver]

At first I thought LISS was this newfangled thing.

Apparently it's the 20-min. run on the treadmill I used to do, after the cookie-cutter dumbell/Hammer Strength machine/etc. workout that I'd get from my complementary personal training session at Gold's Gym/24 Hour Fitness/similar type gym. This was before I got my first kettlebell or even knew KBs existed.

But now some websites are saying to get anything good out of LISS you have to do it for 60 min continuously. Do my strength or hypertrophy workout for 20-30 min. plus 60 of LISS on a workday? No thanks.

 

[Ege]

At first I thought LISS was this newfangled thing.

Apparently it's the 20-min. run on the treadmill I used to do, after the cookie-cutter dumbell/Hammer Strength machine/etc. workout that I'd get from my complementary personal training session at Gold's Gym/24 Hour Fitness/similar type gym. This was before I got my first kettlebell or even knew KBs existed.

But now some websites are saying to get anything good out of LISS you have to do it for 60 min continuously. Do my strength or hypertrophy workout for 20-30 min. plus 60 of LISS on a workday? No thanks.

I agree with this comment. 6 hours weekly Zone 2 training advised by some, is not doable for many people.

 

[pet']

Hello,

I'd just run or ruck at Z2 for 25+ minutes. IMHO, that's the simplest thing to do, and probably one of the most effective.

That being said, you can also consider cardio vascular activity as "something rythmic, done at a sustainable pace, for an "extented" period of time". Indeed, your heart and lungs will not make the difference between step ups, running, rucking, or even rowing, as long as you keep the pace and do not stop regularly - meaning any form of interval training: HIIT, A+A...

Therefore, if running / rucking are not an option for some reason (not convenient, etc...), and if you do not want to be proficient in the skill of running or rucking, you can play with "prison burpees". They are done in a very rythmic fashion and offer plenty of variations. If you do them with nasal breathing, you'll be sure to work in the aerobic zone.

Routines like IronWolf are a good example. BusyDadTraining has a very comprehensive program, based on 20 minutes sessions, which focus on Navy Seals and 6 counts:

Busy Dad Training - busydadtraining.com

busydadtraining.com

Below is the progression he uses:

The Four Levels of the Busy Dad Program - busydadtraining.com

busydadtraining.com

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Francisco]

Run

Fully agree… gotta choose the right tool for the job.

 

[Deleted 20758]

I need to get my cardio in this year as well. I’m doing the swing progression from a strong first article called “deadlifting and swings, a match made in heaven”, super simple EMOM style. Never goes longer than 10 mins.

I like it because there’s no thinking and when it’s easy, add reps until 10 reps and then add minutes ( or vice versa ) til 10 mins x 10 reps then when it’s easy, add weight and go back to 5reps x 5mins. Rinse and repeat all year ( my plan ).


Somehow I always end up trying to do too much, so right now ( I’ve just started it ) I’m doing 5reps x 6min. Super easy now, and quick obviously, but I’m planning to slowly build it up over the course of the year.

It’s so simple and quick, I don’t have any excuse not to get it done at least once a week without affecting my main strength program, and even if I take all year, if I can get to 10 reps EMOM with my 32, I think my conditioning will at least be decent. Much better than now anyway !

This is great, but ten min of KB swing EMOM wouldnt "get your cardio in this year", as you describe it.

 

[Deleted 20758]

Hello,

I'd just run or ruck at Z2 for 25+ minutes. IMHO, that's the simplest thing to do, and probably one of the most effective.

That being said, you can also consider cardio vascular activity as "something rythmic, done at a sustainable pace, for an "extented" period of time". Indeed, your heart and lungs will not make the difference between step ups, running, rucking, or even rowing, as long as you keep the pace and do not stop regularly - meaning any form of interval training: HIIT, A+A...

Therefore, if running / rucking are not an option for some reason (not convenient, etc...), and if you do not want to be proficient in the skill of running or rucking, you can play with "prison burpees". They are done in a very rythmic fashion and offer plenty of variations. If you do them with nasal breathing, you'll be sure to work in the aerobic zone.

Routines like IronWolf are a good example. BusyDadTraining has a very comprehensive program, based on 20 minutes sessions, which focus on Navy Seals and 6 counts:

Busy Dad Training - busydadtraining.com

busydadtraining.com

Below is the progression he uses:

The Four Levels of the Busy Dad Program - busydadtraining.com

busydadtraining.com

Kind regards,

Pet'

Great post.

 

[bluejeff]

But now some websites are saying to get anything good out of LISS you have to do it for 60 min continuously. Do my strength or hypertrophy workout for 20-30 min. plus 60 of LISS on a workday? No thanks.

I agree with this comment. 6 hours weekly Zone 2 training advised by some, is not doable for many people.

The ACSM (American College of Sports Medicine) recommends 150 minutes of moderate intensity aerobic exercise per week, split into smaller chunks. They state:

"All healthy adults aged 18–65 years should participate in moderate intensity aerobic physical activity for a minimum of 30 minutes on five days per week, or vigorous intensity aerobic activity for a minimum of 20 minutes on three days per week."

Physical Activity Guidelines Resources

physical activity guidelines resources created by ACSM Members who are subject matter experts.

www.acsm.org

I would have to do some digging for research studies (which I don't honestly have time for at the moment) used to come to these numbers. The "150 minutes per week" is considered the minimum to see significant improvements in health markers.

I am aware of some of the LISS training methodologies recommending closer to 60min chunks, however, I believe they recommend this to be done in 2-3 sessions, and I doubt they recommend doing it right after strength training. Six hours a week is more like endurance athlete training.

I don't care about endurance training right now. I just want to improve my cardio-respiratory system and maybe shed a little abdominal fat if possible.

 

[offwidth]

Six hours a week is more like endurance athlete training.

Even this would be considered entry level by many locomotive endurance athletes. One of the very best guys around; Kílian Jornet, in 2016 was doing about 700hrs / year in Z2 alone. That’s 14 hrs / week based on a 50 week year.
Mind you he also spent an additional 600hrs in the other heart rate zones!

But as a reminder he is one of the best, and he’s not doing this for health reasons…

 

[watchnerd]

At first I thought LISS was this newfangled thing.

Apparently it's the 20-min. run on the treadmill I used to do, after the cookie-cutter dumbell/Hammer Strength machine/etc. workout that I'd get from my complementary personal training session at Gold's Gym/24 Hour Fitness/similar type gym. This was before I got my first kettlebell or even knew KBs existed.

But now some websites are saying to get anything good out of LISS you have to do it for 60 min continuously. Do my strength or hypertrophy workout for 20-30 min. plus 60 of LISS on a workday? No thanks.

I've never heard 60 min continuous as a minimum.

I have heard 30+ min continuous.

 

[watchnerd]

Even this would be considered entry level by many locomotive endurance athletes. One of the very best guys around; Kílian Jornet, in 2016 was doing about 700hrs / year in Z2 alone. That’s 14 hrs / week based on a 50 week year.
Mind you he also spent an additional 600hrs in the other heart rate zones!

But as a reminder he is one of the best, and he’s not doing this for health reasons…

Yeah, but that's like me looking at professional elite weightlifters train 2x a day, 6 days a week as a model for resistance training.