Old Forum Andrew Read says most people shouldn't press.

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kyle aaron

Level 1 Valued Member
I am indifferent to people's qualifications or which association they're in. I look at and assess their statements on their merit.

Read says that most people will get injured if they press. In my experience, the only pressing injuries come from curlbros doing seated presses with dumbbells far heavier than they've ever lifted before, and their bros "helping" them get the weight up; both glenohumeral and acromioclavicular dislocations have happened from this.

I've yet to see any long-term issues from overhead pressing, or any kind of traumatic injury other than those I mentioned above.

Moral of the story, when pressing, start easy and build up gradually, don't be an idiot and use weights heaps heavier than you're used to. This applies to any exercise, I'd say.

Conclusion: Andrew Read is wrong. I think he's wrong in that "what can I say that'll generate lots of controversy and thus hits for my articles and website?" way. He's overstating what he really believes just to stir things up a bit.
 

aussieluke

Level 5 Valued Member
I thought the point of the article was (from the article): "These single bell ballistic complexes are great for those with shoulder problems who still want to do some upper body work while saving the fragile AC joint from either further damage or for other activities such as swimming."

Make your own decisions. If you like pressing and it doesn't hurt, then press.

No need to get all spun up about it.
 

Samuel

Level 2 Valued Member
To Steve and Christine:

I feel like limiting areas of discussion exclusively to ideas that come from within the community is not only a good way to hinder your progress, but also completely inconsistent with what I see as StrongFirst principles. How often does Pavel incorporate ideas from different systems or coaches? Westside, Sheiko, Smolov? Isn't exploring, critically analysing, and discussing external ideas how we grow and expand our knowledge base?

If someone has a specific question about a specific non-StrongFirst program and they have access to the program writer somewhere else, then I would agree that perhaps they should ask there. For example on Lyle McDonald's forum I have seen people ask about Dan's programs, and the reply is, "Dan is very active over on his own forum at irononline.com, ask there." This makes sense to me. But this scenario right here - an article that doesn't outline a specific program, but instead makes an assertion about risk based on anatomy... why should we not discuss this?

Christine:
I think you have misunderstood what a 'quiet professional' is. I think it's the language issue. In this context 'quiet' doesn't literally mean being silent and not speaking. If you have your StrongFirst certificate handy, take a look at the back. Quiet professionalism is more about humility.

Luke:

The point of the article is kind of irrelevant. Can't we still discuss individual points and ideas?

Also just as a side point with regards to that quote. Fragility of the AC joint isn't an issue. Well, it is in contact sports, but not in this discussion. Shoulder impingement is not damage to the AC joint - it's the irritation of rotator cuff tendons by the acromion. The AC joint itself (the joint of the acromion to the clavicle) is not part of the discussion at all.

One might always question anatomically how push presses can "bypass the AC joint".
 

Mark Limbaga

Level 7 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
Sam, in line with the context of "quiet professionalism" does this also involve just focusing on our jobs/tasks at hand and avoiding the drama in your opinion?
 

kris

Level 3 Valued Member
@ Samuel, you are certainly right, English is not my first language and I don' t live in Australia for ages. Anyway,  I don't think that the definition of the word " quiet " is very important in this thread.
 

William

Level 2 Valued Member
All boils down to a simple point. We all (most of us, anyway), have two good arms and a pair of shoulders. Pressing weight overhead isn't inherently dangerous for anyone. Just like squatting isn't inherently dangerous--but a long, slim guy with a short torso will likely run into knee problems if his form is less-than-perfect. There are probably builds that don't lend themselves well to pressing, but that doesn't make it dangerous.

I have no impressive initials to pepper my name with, but I do have common sense. We've all been pressing and pulling and squatting for centuries, and if one or the other was inherently bad...all the millions shuffling around with bad knees and aching shoulders would have stopped us by now.

If you like to press, then press. Let Andrew stop pressing and pour his Koolaid. Win win.
 

Samuel

Level 2 Valued Member
Mark:

It depends what you mean by avoiding the drama. For example this topic - some people will avoid it purely to avoid public disagreement with a 'competitor' (for lack of a better term). In my opinion, this is not necessary. I feel that it is not inconsistent with quiet professionalism to discuss the ideas absent reference to the author, his/her background, his/her affiliation, etc. Of course it is entirely up to the person to decide whether they want to discuss ideas or not. We have many knowledgeable and experienced leaders in the community who don't partake of the forums and just focus on their personal businesses and their assistance at certifications. This is fine. The level of engagement is up to you. In my opinion, quiet professionalism is how you act at any of those levels. Getting caught up in the "us vs them", as Jeffrey put it, would certainly not be a good example.

It's hard to put a precise definition on quiet professionalism. I tried to Google it, but not a lot comes up. Seems it's often used as a descriptor for servicemen and women, especially special operators. I think this is just one of those things where you know it when you see it but can't really describe it in many other terms. Confident but not cocky would be one attempt, but I think that doesn't quite fully capture it either.

We probably are veering a tad off topic though now.
 

Mark Limbaga

Level 7 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
Yes we are getting off topic.. thank you for your insights...

Years ago I remember in a website Jose Defranco discussed he doesn't favor overhead pressing due to his AC structure but respects the opinion of others who are advocates of the said movement..

 

As I believe, it always depends on the individual. What can be highly beneficial for one can be detrimental for another.

 

 
 

kris

Level 3 Valued Member
@ off topic but I am glas to know that it is difficult to give a precise definition of " quiet professionalism ", my understanding of English is not so bad finally ! Thank you Sam, I feel much better. Are you going to be re- certifiby with StrongFirst in Perth next month ? If yes, see you then. Good night.
 

Samuel

Level 2 Valued Member
Regretfully, I was unable to justify the expense at this time. I will have to attend some other future certification when I have more discretionary funds to hand. It will end up costing me more in the long run, but that's life.
 

kris

Level 3 Valued Member
I am so sorry  you, that's right, very expensive to fly to a coast to another in hight season and your studies are also a big investissmemt and I am sure you are doing well . There is a growing SF community in Brisbane, hopfully the next certification will be on the east coast. Keep at training.kris
 

MikeTheBear

Level 7 Valued Member
"Agree with Steeve, there is no point to refer to a forum or leader without any connection with StrongFirst, the motto  of this leader is ” Stronglast “, so better to totally ignore."

This is kind of cultish.  It implies that anyone not connected to Strongfirst has nothing of value to offer.

For the record, I like the Breaking Muscle site as it will publish multiple views on a particular issue (just look at some of the Crossfit articles - both pro and con). Doug Dupont has some particularly good reviews of the latest research into exercise science.  I have never had an issue with pressing so Andrew's article was not relevant to me. I am neither defending nor supporting it.
 

Jeff

Level 6 Valued Member
Mike,

Cult was the exact word that came to my mind as well.

when there are threads that make reference to Convict Conditioning, Marty Gallagher's new book, Nate Morrison's Combat Conditioning,  Bulgarian Weightlifting programming, Indian Clubs,  Neuro-Mass, Mark Rippetoe, GS, Strand Pulling, and I don't know what else, how did the code of conduct cause this to be the forbidden topic?

The irony us, I neither agreed nor disagreed with the article.  I just wondered what the people here thought about it.  Now I am being told that it was wrong for there to have even been a response.
 

Matt

Level 3 Valued Member
Hi Jeffrey,

 

Thanks for posting the article, and I thought it was an interesting discussion point.  His information about FMS stability is useful in my opinion, for a start.
 

MikeTheBear

Level 7 Valued Member
Jeffrey,

I agree - it was worth discussing and some provided good discussion.  And as one poster mentioned, the article should be taken with a grain of salt (or perhaps chlorine?) given that Andrew experienced shoulder issues while combining pressing with a high volume of swimming. The article also covered mobility issues.

At the end of the day, the recommended complexes aren't a bad workout.

 
 

kris

Level 3 Valued Member
I was just talking about STRONGLAST forum. Certainly, as Samuel pinpoint, English is not my first language, and why, I was misunderstood. I am SFI/ RKC but also attend a course by Jeff Martone, kettlebells for crossfit and will attend next month a course from IKFSA,  by Sergey Rudnev, train with Barbells and bodyweight . I am interrested in every good strenght exercices or tools, first. Hope it is a little bit more clear now.
 

kris

Level 3 Valued Member
Steeve Friedes written English is perfect, and I agreed with him because I am quite sure that we were thinking the same, could be a good idea to ask him also, why only me ?
 
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